Cycling UK Forum

Since the rack is the problem due to it being misaligned (i.e., faulty), can you get a swap for it that doesn't exhibit the problem? If the shop aren't playing ball try Topeak directly. Unless you bought it as a second then the problems exhibited suggest "not fit for purpose sold" to me.

Pete.

As bailout says... also keeps the load a little lower, and thus a bit less prone to penduluming if the bike is swung a bit side to side.

Pete.

My Orts are QL2, but QL1s (looking at the pix on ortleib.de...)


look to be adjustable as to where the hooks are set to on the pannier's fixing rail. So fettle each pannier's lateral hook placement to fit your rack so it doesn't slip?

Pete.

Fact is you can buy a tent which is lighter, has more useful space and doesn't require your bike to stand up. So I really don't see much point...

Pete.

Warning:
Don't try it without a preheat loop, and fire the stove up BEFORE turning the canister over.

I found out about keeping the can up the right way by accident, starting to use gas after getting the gas conversion for my Trangia and not reading the instructions (well, how hard could it be...? ). I'd been told gas was really controllable, but it seemed to be channeling a badly primed pressure stove!

Good point about the pre-heat loop. Recently supplemented my stove collection with a Primus Garvity EF and it works really well (though the Piezo ignition broke within a day, but previous experience with them had taught me never to rely on them...)

Pete.

A few general points on stoves...

multi-fuels that burn cannister gas have been around for a while, I've had a Primus MFS for quite a few years now that does that. It was replaced by the Omnifuel (that does diesel too, the MFS didn't). The Gravity MF seems to have the capability to do gas as well.

Unless the stove has a proper burner rose (a head with lots of holes in) it won't do gas nearly as well as a "proper" gas stove, though it's still pretty good and in many ways preferable to liquid fuels

What the spiel in my Primus says is that while a stove can technically burn both alcohol and petroleum based fuels by basic principle, the actual problem is a sealant that works for both: in practice one that works for one will be eaten by the other over time Someone might have developed one since, but Primus' and MSR's top multi-fuel stoves pointedly do not list alcohol based fuels in what they burn.

Liquid fuel stoves aren't especially dangerous as long as you've had some priming practice. And you do need priming practice (a pre-heater is only any use when the stove is already going, stoves with pre-heaters still need to be primed). The problems with LF stoves is they're more of a faff to use and need more ongoing maintenance than a simple gas stove. They're also almost always heavier. Depending on model, they may be awkward to fine control, but some do it okay and it depends on what you're cooking if it's an issue.

The real strength of a LF pressure stove is if there are motor vehicles where you are, you have a working stove. That is a point certainly worth considering for remote touring, especially with local resupply, but there are certainly places it isn't much of an issue getting cannister gas, or carrying enough with you. LF stoves are also about as good as it gets for the long term high heat output required for effective snow melting... but that's not an issue for a lot of cycle touring!

I typically like gas through a purpose-built gas stove the most: it's easy, clean, no real danger of a smelly and unpleasant fuel spill, controllable, doesn't need priming and the stoves are light and need practically no maintenance. What do people use by choice in their kitchens? gas, and the same reasons that make it good there make it good camping. Liquid fuels and pressure stoves have gas beat if fuel supply is going to be a problem, but if you can get cannisters easily enough then the reasons it's a camp-cooking favourite start to really tell.

The lightest gas stoves that screw into a cannister top are great for weight weenies and occasional use. For more serious/longer term cooking the models with a hose to a remote cannister are easier to use, easier to keep out of the wind and aren't too heavy (still lighter than a multi-fuel).

In summary, I certainly wouldn't rule out using liquid fuels, but where you have easy access to gas it's just a easier and more convenient.

Pete.

Never tried it but I would expect it to be pretty tricky getting it in and out of the tent on its side

It won't get an award for being easy, but it's typically possible to wheel a bike at a pretty sharp angle: you'd have the wheels tracking along near one side of the tent fly and angle the bike at ~30-45 degrees, once it's far enough in lay it down. Without any luggage on it I think it shouldn't be too hard, and I'd prefer to do that once in a while than deal with the extra packing bulk.

Pete.

...and would have to be laid on its side

Is that a problem?

The Saunders Galaxy is another alternative with masses of porch space plus a reasonable sized inner, and would certainly fit a bike inside with the inner part-disconnected... might even take one each side with the inner in place, depending on exact size!

http://www.robertsaunders.co.uk, not cheap at £269 but it's often the case that Saunders have seconds and ex-dem models at bargain prices: 'phone works better than email with them to ask IME.

Pete.

david143 wrote:
I did say that 4 Season rating was my start point for considering a tent. If you equate that as requiring the strongest tent, then strength is important.

This seems to be a spiral of misunderstanding... I started off saying "taking a tent that can survive the worst that might happen for UK cycle touring is, I think, pretty much bonkers", meaning the worst that can happen anywhere - used for the UK, not the worst that can happen cycle touring in the UK. Your reply that you'd just be bonkers then led me to think you wanted the strongest tent, i.e., one that can survive the worst that might happen, anywhere, period.

Pete.

For the sake of the extra, which you'd be carrying after an average drink of water anyhow, it's far better in my book to have a decent sized place to stay at the end of the day

Yes, but there are lower values of "big" that are still "decent sized". For one, a great many 2 man tents give plenty of space to spread out. Our technically 3 man tent gives masses of space for 2, it's why we bought it. But until you get big enough to stand up in, extra space after a while doesn't really get you any more comfort. It just makes the place colder at night, and heavier & bulkier on the bike.

Pete.

cranky wrote:I just compared the size of the Spirit 300+ with the size of the bike and I don't think it'll be a goer. Looks like I'm back to the Equinox.

But remember you can unhook the front of the inner when you want to park the bike: you only need a porch as big as the bike if you want you and the bike in there at the same time.

is a Nallo with the inner unhooked to make more space. If you can do this sort of thing that's all the space you need. I'm not 101% sure the Spirit will allow this, but it's quite likely and you can double check with Vango.

Pete.

I have not decided on which tent. The lighter the tent, the more likely that it will cost more. If weight is the only difference other than price between 2 tents, then I would go with the cheaper.

Even if you could afford the lighter one? well, if you want, but that's a pretty weird approach to "the best I can afford" in an arena where weight and packing bulk is a recognised penalty. No wonder folk are having trouble catching your exact meaning!

Pete.

cranky wrote:The Vango Spirit is half the weight and twice the price.....after that it just gets silly

If I ditch 3kg of ugly fat and stick with the Equinox, just think of the money I'll save

But I imagine spending the money will be easier...

Like bikes, tents are subject to the Law Of Diminishing Returns for dropping weight. You could always buy two Tiger Paws tents, one for you and one for the bike, and still be ahead on money and weight!

For me it's packing bulk as much as weight. Not quite so bad with a trailer, but still not something you can rule out.

Pete.

I view the best I can afford as a tent that will cope with the weather conditions I camp out in easily, has plenty of space, and is erected outer first (or together).

Dozens of tents fit those criteria, but I doubt dozens of tents can all simultaneously be the "best".

Weight only being a factor if I was looking at tents much over 6Kgs.

But if you have loads of candidates that do what you outline above as your requirements, why on earth would you disregard weight? If Tent X does all you want and costs £n and weighs 4 Kg, Tent Y does all you you want, also costs £n and weighs 3 Kgs: why would you not get Tent Y? It really doesn't make much sense.

Pete.

Pete, if you like doing the research why not try and find me a tent like the Vango Equinox 350 at a lighter weight. It must have the large porch and be able to take the bike while I'm away from it.

Anything come to mind?

The most obvious candidate would be the Vango Sprit 300+ (see http://www.vango.co.uk/products/tentsinfo.aspx?productid=104&modelid=77#)

Though the 200+ would still give you plenty of space for just one.

for parking a bike inside while you're not all you really need is a removable inner, which means you could conceivably do away with the extended porch (take down the inner and pop it in a corner and you'll have acres of space for the bike). I think you can do that with the standard Vango Spirits.

A lighter alternative would be the Terra Nova Laserlarge 3 (see http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Type/Tents/Superlite_Tents/Laserlarge_3_GREEN.html) which has a monster porch but a relatively small inner. Should be okay if it's just you, but a bit pokey for 2 IMHO.

Lightwave's XT models are nice, though they pitch inner first which I've never liked that much so you can't take down the inner. But worth a look for a light tent with an extended porch: http://www.lightwave.uk.com/en/tents_overview.php and look at the t2 xt models.

Hilleberg's Nallo GT is a goody, coming in 2, 3 and 4 person sizes, all lighter than the Vango. There will be a GT version of the Kaitum next year if you don't like the tapering inner of the Nallo, http://www.hilleberg.se. Harder to find in the UK are Helsports, but their Fjelleimen Camp is similar to the Nallo, see http://www.tamarackoutdoors.co.uk/dispprod.pl?filtera=Outdoor%20Equipment&filterb=Helsport%20Tents&filterc=Helsport%20Pro but for any of those sit down before looking at the prices.

That should keep you going for now!

Pete.