Cycling UK Forum

I reckon there is probably about 20 to 25 litres of space in those bags. I used to be able to go backpacking with 20 litres at about 4.5kg.

If you are not bothered by luxuries then you can pare down a lot. The hardest thing is to work out what is a luxury. So long as you are warm and preferably not wet when in your sleeping bag you can cope with pretty much everything. I'm guessing that with cyclists there are a few pockets in what you are wearing and your water is not inside your bags so you gain a bit there. I can see how it is easy to get by with actual bag volume of 20litres on a bike. Tools can be cable tied to the bike somehow I reckon. The old inner tube tied inside your seat cavity with tyre levers and glueless patches. I think someone on a cycling forum once said soemthing along the lines of you can cope with most things with a ??? and two cable ties. Can't remember what that one other thing was, perhaps a multi tool. Don't agree but you can get by with a kit in pockets and attached to the bike. I've got a good little pump that attaches to the side of the bottle underneath the cage using the bosses. Need to replace th bracket since it got stolen with my old bike.

If you look at the absolute bare minimum it is shelter (micro tarp and bivvy bag can weigh less than 300g), sleeping bag (mine is 690g in XL size and packs to less than a litre bottle size), mat (polycro sheet with a cutdown CCF mat - I got a 130g CCF mat and cut it down to torso size so it weighed less than 70g), stove/pot (options here but I went Ti Vargo TI lite pot with 100g Primus can with primus micron stove (old version at about 86g) which packs into the pot with lighter back up and 3 days worth of coffee/tea/other hot drinks) and basic clothes. You have clothes you are in and for 3 days what do you need? Warmth layer, cag and what else really? Food is seriously the biggest weight and volume I think, especially if you are a big fella with big calorie needs to just survive let alone exercise at walking/cycling intensity

Vantage wrote:I'd be wary of fitting a light to the fork legs. The reason being, as I discovered before getting my dynamo, is that at certain viewpoints from the motorists seat, the front tyre can obscure the light. I narrowly missed being hit on a roundabout because of this.
Imo, whatever you do, keep any light above the front tyre and mudguard and/or keep it central. It's useless if it's unseen.

One each side???

I chose sometimes beacause I occasionally try on helmets in the shop and try on my old one at home. Then I put them back on the shelf and get on with enjoying myself. I don't force my kid to wear one (no point because at 9 months he knew how to operate pretty much all forms of quick release buckles and what point is a helmet in the canal?!!! So I don't feel the need for road or cycle path riding with one other than to set him a good example. That failed when I only just caught it flying off as my partner set off the first ride after getting his helmet. Lasted less than a minute onhis head!!!

I will wear one if I go off road. SO sometimes sums it up.

What is that bike?

Your parents and family worry about you which is a sign they actually care. Be grateful and keep them updated on your trip as you do it. I personally think a lot of their fears will dissipate as your trip unfurls especially if you find a means to keep them informed on progress. There could be many ways to do that from internet cafes, blogging or skyping from a phone (if you can keep it charges) through to a personal locator beacon that uses GPS to track you with the means for others to see where you are.

IIRC there is arelatively cheap one called Spot that has an emergency button linked through GPS satellite to a US base which detects location and calls the local emergency service best place to help. That one I think also allows others to log on and follow your trace. Since that runs on batteries it is fairly easy to keep it working. Be careful as I think certain versions of these are not legal in some countries.

This idea of keeping them updated works best if you can do it frequently such as the GPS locator that allows them to see your daily travel. If they see you are moving each day they'll know you are OK. They may become calmer about the trip.

I do know how they feel though. I used to be into climbing but especially white water kayaking (at a decent level of hardness too). I used to tell them about the trips I;d just done but as I got onto the really dodgy stuff they told me straight not to talk about it. I had been insensitive in not realising that their lack of experience meant they did not know the risk I was taking on, which was actually not that great. A 29ft waterfall sounds dangerous but really it is just a big log flume, it is the other bits that can be tricky. The twisty, turny bits needing body armour!!! Never told them that though.

My point being they are worried but because of lack of experience of the real not perceived risks. You will never stop that worry so if you care about them as much as they do for you then perhaps finding a way to help them is your responsibility. That is why I suggested keeping them informed on progress. I know people who have a grown up child who disappears for several weeks without any clue of their whereabouts. That is not nice for them and they worry. It is relatively easy these days with modern communications to keep up to date. Skype from internet cafes in towns on the way. Simple stuff really. Also the phone network Three has no roaming charges from a lot of countries these days so if you can keep a phone charged (even a non-fancy brick) then it is a simple act to keep in contact. Familiarity breeds contempt they say and if they hear more of your safe adventures as they happen worry should dissipate.

At least your not going into deepest, darkest Borneo centre at a time Westerners are being killed and the government has banned westerners going in there. I know someone who did that and their parents did not know a the time. Europe is as safe as you can be in a modern word. Turkey is a much improved nation too I think. Enjoy your trip.

You can get some lights that use a rubber bad to attach to any tube shaped part of your bike. I use one for my rear on the seatpost but it came with smaller bands so you could attach it to seat stays. I know there is a front light version of the Cateye xlite but it is only a light to be seen not to see by, not bright enough but the wide angle of visibility on these front and rear lights are amazing.

I think you can get brighter lights that attach in similar ways that you could attach to the forks. I also think you can get bars that attach to the stem and go up and forward so you can attach more kit on the bars like computers, lights,etc. Topeak I think do them but I am not sure if they can be adjusted to avoid the bar bag. I did think one of these sorts of fittings would be good to get the lights further forward and the light out of your angle of view, I sometimes found that I'd have my lights in my eyes if I tucked down a bit so thought about these for moving the lights further away.

beardy wrote:

BTW if anyone is starting a stove self help group I will only admit to owning the following stoves. micron, Vango remote can, Whitebox stove, Vargo triad, caldera cone for an AGG 3 cup pot, mini trangia clone, AGG can type stove, home made can stove (not very good and possibly lost now), 2 ring camping stove (car camping from a big blue camping gaz can), a 7g esbit stove from a Scandinavian company, honey stove from BPL-UK and probably more I just can't remember. I went through a stage of buying them and I don't even know if I have unpacked all my stoves I have bought. Reckon I have thrown away a few without even using.

What no Primus No.96

http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/show ... cd9d8/#NEW

Oooohhh! Not yet...

I know very well I am at the less severe end of this stove addiction, I've seen enough stovie threads to know that. I think I got treatment before it got bad (I met my partner, who moved in and cleared my stock out a bit...well a lot), Part of that treatment included other camping/walking/backpacking gear too. Also a lot of torch failures over that time without replacements now means that she has three or four times as many torches as I do (I only have the original version of the e-lite now).

BTW if you think stovies are bad then torch afficionados have the real opportunity to geek out on their hobby.

Anyone bought a trangia over say the last 5-10 years? A proper trangia that is. My partner has one from about 5 years ago and like the new ones in shops now the pots are a bit rough and poorly finished. The rolled edges are not always rolled fully over leaving a very sharp edge which when you pick the pot up can and does easily cut. Just a point because my experience of 30+ year old trangias (borrowed) is the quality was a lot better.

On a similar note I bought a mini trangia clone for £10. First trip out a mate was using the proper trangia version. We compared the two and the clone was not just cheaper but 30g lighter, better made and looked a better material somehow (I think the deep drawing process was better done but we just couldn't out our finger on why it looked better).

I've got too many stoves but my go to is an older model of Primus Micron with a PZ ignition and a gauze centre that helps spread the heat so it is not creating a centre hot spot like pocket rocket does with a wider pan. It is not like the modern micron stoves and works better IMHO. Despite being well in excess of 10 years old the PZ still works first time, every time and it has never failed once. It is a can top though stability is never a problem, I either use those plastic feet, pegs and zip ties or just place the can into a circular depression in the ground created by my heel. That last one works perfectly in all but winter for me since I create a canister sized circular hole that holds the can nicely.

BTW if anyone is starting a stove self help group I will only admit to owning the following stoves. micron, Vango remote can, Whitebox stove, Vargo triad, caldera cone for an AGG 3 cup pot, mini trangia clone, AGG can type stove, home made can stove (not very good and possibly lost now), 2 ring camping stove (car camping from a big blue camping gaz can), a 7g esbit stove from a Scandinavian company, honey stove from BPL-UK and probably more I just can't remember. I went through a stage of buying them and I don't even know if I have unpacked all my stoves I have bought. Reckon I have thrown away a few without even using.

IMHO each has it's place and the is always a trade off between your requirements and what the stove can do. I prefer for my uses (backpacking and lunchtimebrew stops) it is my primus micron gas stove. I do want a MSR windboiler (like the MSR reactor only smaller) and would consider a jetboil or more likely the primus version (they actually were involved in the design of the jetboil at the beginning and originally made them for Jetboil I heard but a falling out led primus to make their own which is kind of better quality IMHO),

As far as ease of use goes I find gas but then I always struggled with meths. Trangia burners were the bane of my life as I tried to get the best out of them. MY first trangia experience was at below -7C one cold winter evening. Despite warming the meths up I failed to get a rolling boil to last long before the full meths burner ran out of meths. Not sure what I was doing wrong but i gave up after 1.5 hours and went to the pub (too late for last food orders at 9pm so I ate several packs of crisps for my dinner and a pack of supermarket nuts in my tent later - oif it wasn;t for the beer I would have been hungry!!). I have managed with trangia since but there is so much better options out there i have written them off.

Meths can soot up a bit but water is supposed to help. Personally i never bother since what is a bit of soot on pan bottoms really, it wipes off doesn't it???

Wood burners I am not too keen. My first and only one is the honey stove. I tried to cook sausages on it for my first proper cook and just burnt the outside and the rest was raw. A stray dog loved me for those half cooked sausages because I would never trust my cooking on that stove. I just find them a bad idea due to fuel sources near where I usually camp (up in the fells).

There was a news piece a few months back about how dementia/Alzheimers is something like the second or third biggest killer of women and close to that of men but it is not mentioned. Don't know how exactly Dementia kills but that was a NICE or NHS figure (or similar official body).

I think I will take these with a pinch of salt afterall in our family heart disease has yet to kill anyone in living memory but cancer just eats through our older family members back through living memory.

Also as the lifespan of people increases so have certain conditions (such as dementia) become more prevalent. Then there is the fact that we have had the first boys born who are believed to have a higher life expectancy than the girls born at the same time (actuarily or statistically speaking). I am sure that will also filter through into causes of death eventually (well beyond my lifespan).

Basically I do not pay any heed to these lists/graphs and especially when there is no scale to the axis. That is just stupid missing out an axis like that. Meaningless twaddle! Pedants unite!!

It is less than a month since my bike was nicked. I still feel your pain. Insurance cover it? Mine didn't. Mind you it wasn't expensive really, £550 plus extras loike rack, guards, light brackets, bottle cages, pump bracket, etc. Still to replace it with something but I look to the positive in my case in that I can now switch back to drop bar bike after the mistaken flat bar trial.

If it is new, fancy or with expensive kit then it is likely to have been split for parts within hours. Even if the police are lucky and catch the same guys red handed so they can search property chances are the bits are passed on. Sorry for the bearing of bad news but after it happening to me and getting an update from the investigating officer to the same effect I feel you need to accept. Brutal when you think you get your bike set up right for your needs and you are happy with it, enjoying your riding then it gets snatched.

Post details on sites like bikeshepherd, immobilise and stolen.co.uk (I think they are the ones I used) and set up ebay and gumtree alerts. It helps to feel like you are doing something i found. Good luck in getting it back.

So far I am wondering if the only bike I like that is suitable (chainstay etc.) might be £100 over budget. The Genesis Crois de Fer is a nice looking bike and seems to be what I need for proper touring as well as looking decent kit for commuting. I would strip off the front rack though as even touring I would probably not use it.

Now I reckon the answer won't be a simple yes, but here goes. Would it be worth spending the extra £100 for the Tour de Fer?

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adventure/expedition/tour-de-fer

Another question, what else for £900 IF (a big if) I could stretch to that??

My partner uses those v brakes, the ones you can unhook at the top to allow removal of wheel for puncture repair, etc. I have never used them coming from road bike territory through the hybrid hydraulic discs to where I am going now. I was impressed with my disc brakes, and first few trips out I got a part of me impressed with the shape of the steerer when I tried to brake like my old road bike. Seriously good braking. I am guessing v brakes are not too far behind since they were a MTB thing before tourers found them.

I looked at the Edinburgh tourer but I think I heard some negatives about it somewhere. Either a forum or a cycling magazine site. It put me off.

Forget about the child seat, I'm not going there again. Changed my mind about that one due to the mounting/dismounting issue among other reasons. A child trailer is the most I'll use for those duties. My partner on here 26" MTB can take the child seat if needed. She finds that acceptable.

Can I start again with this after all the advise given and discussions with family and friends (particularly my more experienced partner) with renewed requirements? We have ruled out the grand tour idea completely as with a youngster and commitments that was never likely. Tours are probably a couple of days with the view of using hostels, B&Bs and perhaps those camping pods. BTW for the pods my sleeping bag is 690g rated down to -7C and my partner is 1kg rated to silly temps bought for Eastern European winters, the kid will be getting a good sleeping bag this year but I reckon it will not be even close to the 1kg of my partner. Told you we had light kit, we're gear freaks with backpacking/walking kit. The majority of the use will be with either a couple of kgs of commuting kit or the same in day kit for day rides out with the family (a toddler needs a lot of kit to be happy and we tend to over pack for him). Child attachment restricted to trailer for me or trailer and child seat option for my partner on her MTB.

Now what should I be looking at for £800 all in? Chain stay say 435 to 445 or longer? STA of 71.5-72.5 tops? Steel ideally but unlikely at £800 due to older models going cheap are all smaller sizes than I need so probably Aluminium 6061/6066 or 7001 grades. What size of bike? 60cm? 62cm? 58cm? At this price point are v brakes the best to expect or if mech disc brakes are possible which are good and which are to be avoided. I suspect the brakes are the likely to be the lowest spec of the kit on the bike. Guessing Sora is the best but probably end up with Claris if I'm to get steel. So the brakes...avid BB5s (prefer BB7s but unlikely I reckon) there are tektro ones and Spyre too but probably not get them. I'm guessing, and hoping, that mech brakes are easy to swap out and upgrade. Just disconnect old one and replace with new one (never that simple and probably I'll use a LBS or Evans or Leisure Lakes for that).

I guess I am asking a lot here but imagine you were a bike designer making a bike for people like me at the £800 price point. What would you put in and leave out???

Spa has Raleigh Sojourn at £690 in size 57cm tops. Now the RRP it has is £1100 which I doubt but with steel 631 frame and 4130 forks, sora 50/39/30 with 11-34 cassette Avid BB5 brakes (not as good as the BB7s or some of the other brands that have caught up Avid and even passed them but still OK and easily upgraded if needed). I think that is better than the Dawes Galaxy except for the dodgy Raleigh name. My old road bike is a Raleigh but they were still ok back then just not trendy or popular in the way they used to be.

At that price I think it could be an option IF the 57 is big enough (doubt it really).

Looking at Surly LHT prices they all seem to be £1000 or so (with tiagra/deore or similar spec). Do you know if there is a cheaper option somewhere with say Sora 9 speed? Reckon a made up bike is cheaper than getting the frame and a LBS to make something up from parts. Also the sizes seem to start from high 50s cm, so far I have tried road bikes at 56 and 58 in Cannondale which fitted. I am guessing in other brands that will be 60cm but IIRC Surly LHT starts at 56 or 58. Are they undersized for the frame size they give in the way the Cannondale I tried was under sized (56 equivalent to a 58 in similar bikes or 58 = 60 in other brands).

Well I'm definitely going to take on board the chainstay length issue with the heel clip on panniers. Plan to measure width of my panniers and try to approximate where they would extend to in relation to my feet on these bikes. However if my choices are these bikes and a Dawes Galaxy I am likely to start commuting with a rucksack and one of these bikes. I just feel that unless you get a galaxy at a very low price (for example old models from Spa that are too small for me anyway) then I think they are overrated and not well specced. I must admit I would just get another hybrid and fit decent bar ends like those ergon gp3 bar ends and grips for a different hand position if my options due to price was just the Dawes Galaxy and clones.