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by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 3:46pm
Forum: Touring & Expedition
Topic: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?
Replies: 50
Views: 5788

Re: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?

psmiffy wrote:As to the question “Is touring a thing of the past?”

No idea – Ive only been touring since I was 16 – In the UK I don’t really see any more or less tourers than I used to – In fact apart from catching a boat to the continent ive never really seen that many tourers in the UK – they must be about but not at a density that is really noticeable – be interesting to do a count at LE or JOG

Continental Europe is another matter – and to be more specific - on the cycling superhighways – the German Rivers – the Danube or the Elbe – or the Via Augusta – in season you can see hundreds if not thousands of Dutch and German cycle tourists (and a much younger demographic than the typical brit tourer) on a daily basis – all on trekking bikes, lots camping, others b&b or hostelling – a scattering of other nationalities generally on more exotic steeds thrown in – Brits included – I think someone mentioned the Chinese – not seen that many so far – but the Japanese are well represented – Outside of the main routes though you can cycle for thousands of kilometres without seeing another tourer until you maybe hit one of the pinch points when you will see a dribble for a day or two.

Touring has never really been mainstream and probably never will be but there will always be people who see it as an accessible adventure.


Well I think I live on the LEJOG route judging by the number of people you see of a summer day going up the A6. I often see them as I ride home (that is between 5pm and 5:30pm). They are often with panniers front and rear, but some with just rear panniers, something on top, a bar bag and sometimes a rucsack too. They are on a real mixture of bikes from old school tourers (some must be rather old - the riders and the bikes) through to modern hybrids or trekkers. I have to admit, with no science or polling theory to back this up, that the men tend to have either tourer/road bike with drop bars or they are on a mountain bike type of bike with rigid forks, but you do see women riding mostly hybrids I would say with butterfly bars being more common with women than men. You do get couples on tandems and even groups of tandems (all couples I'm guessing except I have seen a parent and child once). Occasionally you see the bike packer type with a full on MTB with bags like the Alpkit range tucked in under the seat and a roll type of bag under the handlebars (sometimes these people have rucksacks). The one thing I would say is about 80% perhaps more would be what I would say was of a retired age or getting that way. You do see younger riders, typically in their 30s but most would be towards the higher end of 50s with a smattering of 40s to 50s in there. The one thing I will say is touring is not dead if you live on a popular tourinng route. I think that backs up the earlier post from the guy who did the NW Vietnam tour the "wrong" way. I know people who did the C2C or the Roses way East to West and passed a lot. That was after they had done it the traditional West to East way when they saw a lot less people riding it.

BTW The Danube is one our list of tours to try as I understand it is easy enough for kids to do. Looking at the Austrian section which is more popular and tarmaced a lot of the way. not sure whether to hire bikes or if it is more expensive than taking the bike by train there. We also looked at riding from home to Heysham to try to get to Ireland but the ferries don't allow cyclists (with trailer) to go on the routes direct to Ireland from their. Shame as it is so close to home for us.
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 3:07pm
Forum: Touring & Expedition
Topic: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?
Replies: 50
Views: 5788

Re: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?

ipswichcycler wrote:Evans selling only cheap and nasty with v brakes... Seems not.

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec070581

Also you can get some fine v brakes.
Image


To clarify that I should have said in my branch. That was what I meant as IIRC I was talking about trying bikes on for size and looking at them. Personally I could buy anything online but without seeing them I tend to rule them out as an option.
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 3:02pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: Really good serious travel camera
Replies: 80
Views: 10251

Re: Really good serious travel camera

There are some very nice tough cameras out there with GPS too. My favourite is the Ricoh ones out last year. There is one with a barometer as well for that extra bit of information. IIRC it stores it with the other data in the image file. One similar even has a screen on the front of the camera to show the GPS location, altitude and air pressure. On top of that about 25m diving capability. That is more than enough for most snorkellers and even divers trying it out on holiday.
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 2:01pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: One UK Cycling Irony...
Replies: 19
Views: 2699

Re: One UK Cycling Irony...

Psamathe wrote:Why should I pay for motorways when I don't use them (and we haven't got any in Cornwall)?
From a Conservative perspective "Using the helicopter is the only way to travel."

Why should I pay for cycling facilities if I haven't got a bike?
In the words of Jeremy Clarkson: "Get a better job and buy a car"

So, as a result much of the list is being "cut" (or just got rid of) so you wont be paying for it much longer.

Ian


Helicopters? I'm a socialist I just use one of the two jags I have at my disposal.

If you listen to Clarkson then all I can say is "what a muppet!!". That is you if you truly listen to that Clarkson. Comedy value if you are a pathetic car nut who likes to put £20k of kit onto a 1 litre engined clio to make it look fast, have a good sound system and has a duff exhaust system that should be a cause of MOT failure and at the very least get it crushed for noise pollution. Or a funny man with funny programmes that are both entertaining and highly informative. Take your pick, let us know which you are so we can point at you and laugh.

PS Psamathe I am not really directing that at you because I know you are only making points and probably think his comments are not worth heeding. I am directing it at anyone who actually listens and takes heed of Clarkson. There are some out there you know.
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 1:59pm
Forum: The Tea Shop
Topic: One UK Cycling Irony...
Replies: 19
Views: 2699

Re: One UK Cycling Irony...

I don't understand the relevance of the library argument in relation to the OP's post about LBS other than how people want one thing that they perceive as good for your group but they do not want it to cost them anything. The difference is there is a library within easy reach of people in most towns and in the country there are library buses if you happen to be at home when they are there.

The LBS is no longer in every town and certainly there is never a good LBS in every town. There is a Halfords, Decathlon in a lot of towns and Evans Cycles is in a lot of areas too. One opened up a few years ago near me and lasted about 2 years. We have halfords, two small chains (one is a boutique I think in that you are not really welcome if your budget is less than £1k and even at that you are the poor relative nobody wants. The other is part of the Leisure Lakes mini chain. Hardly a LBS as it is also an online shop too.

Then the next town the other way has halfords, Evans and one LBS that I can not get on with since the staff are a bit sneery if you are not someone they know. It is a kind of social club for older cyclists. You can get a nice custom Aluminium or steel bike from them using one of their own frame designs for a lot more than evans if that is your thing. There is also another bike shop selling secondhand, another that sells new but very cheap brands./models but are not cheap. That basically means we tend to go to Evans or buy online. If you haven;t got a helpful LBS then you can not partake and indeed you may question their value. At least a library has a recognised value and is available despite th current and last governments all trying to close them down (not just the rich man's government that closed them if you want to be political about it).
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 1:24pm
Forum: On the road
Topic: Taking a bike on a train
Replies: 37
Views: 12487

Re: Taking a bike on a train

My partner had a spell over the summer of using the train on the first part of her journey into work. It was TPE or Northern depending on time of travel. She had the added difficulty of an 18 month old on the child seat at the back and a horrendous gap between platform and train. Seriously that is about a foot in places which with a heavy shopper bike and a 10kg load high up on the back was hard. The only diffulty she had was the gap and the weight, she never had any problems with TPE or the much older train stock that Northern use.

Officially one or both of those companies say you need to book it at least half or full hour before travel. She never did and never had an issue. She stopped because the gap was a problem. I told her that if she was disabled she could arrange for help so perhaps she should book in to travel and get the train staff to help. The guard on that line used to stand by the door she used shaking his head at her efforts to get over the gap and on the train instead of helping. I was appalled. One time a woman struggled with a buggy then came back to help her but this guy just stood there amused by both the woman with the buggy and my partner struggling. I sometimes think train companies need to wake up and realise without passengers of all varieties they would not be needed. We are the customer and we are right. If we want bikes on the train you make it possible. If we need help getting on or platforms made safe then you do it. I remember in FRance they brought in real fancy new trains that were a bit wider than normal. That meant abot 32 platforms had to be modified so they can use them. That was not an issue but here they'd probably just miss the station.
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 10:10am
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

Actually, I reckon a few tweaks would be needed. One thing I think I remember from that bike was when on the hoods it felt like I was putting a bit of forward force on the hoods. I am not sure what that means whether I need them closer in or a greater reach. Seriously I never really got the idea of bike fitting, I pretty much went along with what the bike shop said. I raised the seat and bars on old bikes as I grew but apart from that, once I'd stopped growing up, I just let the bike shop set the fit for me and never changed it.

Either way I think the old road bike is comfortable enough for my needs. I would get a bit stiff on a 3 hour ride but I don't do them much if ever again in one hit. My reckoning is a bike is good if I am confortable for up to a 2 hour straight ride (or 1 hour with a few minutes stretch off it). After 2 hours I reckon I've earnt a cafe stop or snack stop anyway.

As far as bikes go I think I am about £100 - 200 off what I need for a bike that is good enough for my needs.
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 9:16am
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Been looking around a bit. Looked at thorn sherpa in the largest size and sta is 72.5 degrees, chaichainstay 445. So the angle is a bit high and the cchainstayis closer to these CXers than the 525+ mentioned. Dawes galaxy is also 445 but the sta is 71 degrees.


Please see my post at the top of this page,I occasionally hit the wrong keys and don't check my posts,apologies :oops:


Spotted that, made more sense at that measurement.

One thing I would point out and that is I'm a fussy shopper so I will never buy before I try and I do think I can spot problems when I see them. Assuming I don't let my love of a beautiful bike fool my judgement.

BTW regarding my old Raleigh, anyone know where I can find out ther geometry of a 1990 Raleigh road bike? It is a Raleigh M-trax 400 or 4000 I can't quite remember. Reynolds 501 frame, Shimano exage 400 7 speed gears with a double up front. It has a higher gearing I think and those tubes are seriously thin even by modern steel frame standards. With the large frame size the bike actually looks huge but was a near perfect fit for me I think. Shame only 501 tubing and a 7 speed. I am guessing I might need it to be cold set at the rear triangle to get a more modern hub/cassette in there??? Can you even get 7 speed groupsets these days? I have heard there are some shops who specialise in buying up older parts, not sure who or if they still exist. I assume any decent LBS should have a guy capable of building decent wheels up to a spec that you need. Would a 1990 Raleigh road bike if re-built be any good as a commuter? I guess not but as a project it could be good to try, if nothing else I would learn more about bikes doing it and that would help me to sort out problems on my new bike,
by Tangled Metal
17 Feb 2015, 9:05am
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

Vorpal wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Been looking around a bit. Looked at thorn sherpa in the largest size and sta is 72.5 degrees, chaichainstay 445. So the angle is a bit high and the cchainstayis closer to these CXers than the 525+ mentioned. Dawes galaxy is also 445 but the sta is 71 degrees.


If you are considering a Thorn, give them a call and discuss your fit issues with them.


Just seen a guy riding a Thorn this morning. Confirmed my view I'd like one of them. Do you think I could haggle them down to my £800 absolute top limit?
by Tangled Metal
16 Feb 2015, 9:47pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

Been looking around a bit. Looked at thorn sherpa in the largest size and sta is 72.5 degrees, chaichainstay 445. So the angle is a bit high and the cchainstayis closer to these CXers than the 525+ mentioned. Dawes galaxy is also 445 but the sta is 71 degrees.

It's all confusing, two top tourers with chainstay lengths 20mm greater than the two cxer style bikes and the thorn is 72.5 degrees sta not much lower than some CXers. I had a ride on the cannondale caadx bike at the weekend. I found it a nice ride, I clipped the toeclip on the front wheel in the smaller size but the bigger one was ok. I did not have a pannier on it obviously but still a nice feel to it I thought. The chainstay is 432 IIRC and sta 73 degrees. Felt a really nippy bike. Not right but nice bike.

I've actually got small feet for my size at size 9 but did get my heel clipped by panniers once on my specialized Crosstrail sport disc. Never happened again so I put it down to my foot slipping on the pedal. That chainstay was 445 but sta 73 degrees. That bike worked well with a pannier and I'd have no problem getting another if I had another option than flat bars. I need more hand position options and butterfly bars are out for me. Having said that it needed some higher gearing. I never dropped out of the big chainring except when loaded with trailer going uphill off road.
by Tangled Metal
16 Feb 2015, 4:46pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

reohn2 wrote:There's some crazy geometry with both bikes,short chainstays,steep seatube angles.Usual tripe,the words bargepole and wouldn't touch with,spring to mind :?


Is that for touring or lightly loaded. I suppose both. I've yet to ride any but I've looked at reviews of the pinnacle and they seem to rate them as a commuter or light tourer. the likes of Road.cc, bike radar, etc. seem to have a decent review of them, even Cyclikng weekly too. Well the Pinnacle at least, yet to read into the Norco one yet.

Might just wait for the Spesh Diverge to come back into the UK at my size. March 6th I think. It looks decent enough bike for my use but that is the bottom of the range at my price.
by Tangled Metal
16 Feb 2015, 3:49pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

Yes I heard that but I did read something about the Pinnacle Arkose 2015 version being re-designed to take account of this. I think it was the designer being interviewed and he specifically said they'd changed the stays to cope with panniers for tourers and commuters. I will of course take that into consideration and also toe clip from the tyre. I've had that on CX tests before I ended up getting by hybrid. BTW i did get heel clip against the panniers on my hybrid but i adjusted my foot position on the pedal and sorted it. That won't work if the stays are too short for safe pannier use.

I once read the brochure for Whyte bikes about how they keep the stays shorter for a more dynamic ride or a better power transmission, or something like that. That was when i was readoing about their RD7 road bike geometry which is used in the Whyte Suffolk, their version of the CX/commuter/gravel bike. If you are making it for commuting, among other uses, you need to design it for panniers. Otherwise leave that feature out by not putting in pannier eyelets holes, that way noone will buy it for that use then find it doesn;t work. I find it amusing when i see bikes with pannier attachment points without the bike being suitable.

BTW someone mentioned that if my old bike got nicked, what is to stop the new one? Well the bike was nicked from a secure yard with eye on almost all day long. The theft was a real high risk offence from people who did not care about getting caught. They were seen but the two who saw it did nothing because they were in a meeting. It was really bad luck mixed with over confidence. I used a cheap cable lock and I will admit that I didn't always lock it neither. No one else locked it except me but mine got nicked along with another more expensive one. My bike will get locked with a U lock now when I get my new one. Also the bike shed may be moved out of sight of the main industrial estate road. There is also going to be CCTV cameras put up. The company owners were shocked and more annoyed than I was. The other guy got his bike back but mine was stripped for parts the police say within an hour. They were part of s gang going around the area but at ;least half the gang got nailed

I will be making it a lot harder for the bike to be taken and with the heightened awareness within the company people are being stopped more in the yard and questioned. It is a more security minded workforce now but I am still going to make my bike the hardest to nick so at least there is a chance they won;t want to bother or won;t have the time to break the locks. u lock around rear tyre, main triangle and rack with a cable through the front tyre. At least until I can get a locking skewer for my tyres and seatpost. Anyone got any recommendations for that??
by Tangled Metal
16 Feb 2015, 2:09pm
Forum: Touring & Expedition
Topic: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?
Replies: 50
Views: 5788

Re: Is touring becoming a thing of the past?

I come from a walking/backpacking background and I can say that in the past you used to get loads of traditional tourists using hostels. I used to always see the Dawes Galaxay and similar. Now I don't use hostels since they started upgrading them and the cost per night went up. I am guessing that they are being used less because of that.

I think there is a different style of riding happening that has made the traditional touring become even more of a niche market. I think more people are about instant thrills then back to a base. For example people on holidays might take their bike to use from a base rather than cycle in a linear way with everything on the bike. This matches the destination cycling site like bike parks for MTBers. Even the Lakes is one great big bike park you can ride from a base. Those day rides take a MTB or a sportive/audax type of more relaxed road bike. These are also capable of being used touring by credit card or even light camping. Bear in mind in the backpacking world people are dropping weight of their kit which could be suitable for tourists. This is exemplified by the bikepacker. The MTBer who takes his shelter, stove and other kit on a rackless, guardless mountain bike. My backpacking kit was only about 4.5-6.5kg depending on the amount of spare clothes needed due to the weather variability. I can wear that in a 20 litre rucsack on my back and still ride comfortably if I wanted to. Does that make the trad tourer redundant?

Also image is a problem. I live off the A6 in north Lancashire. I see a lot of fully laden tourists and those are almost all retired people or those edging to retirement. That is a specialist group in themselves. One that has money to spend and would easily be able to afford a custom tourer. That niche market is one where you travel to a shop for measurement not to a LBS near you. SO why stock it if those with money won;t buy it off you. Then the image is not good. People will more likely tour on a hybrid or MTB I think now. Even one with suspension. On the continent I believe they have always gone for flat bar trekker bikes and these are coming into the UK. These are bikes with hub dynamos built in lights and at least guards and a rear rack, often a low loader. They are 700 wheels or even as low as 26" wheels and wider tyre sizes more along the lines of a hybrid. This gives users the idea they can go off road better than a touring bike.

Evans Cycles stock touring bikes (about 2 or 3 depending on the size of the branch) if you need to get one but they are all nasty bikes I think at the cheaper end with v brakes. nowadays there is no reason why a touring should have them, get a mech disc anyday for touring IMHO, preferably with dual pivot.
by Tangled Metal
16 Feb 2015, 1:24pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: Bike fitting for Dummies!
Replies: 2
Views: 633

Bike fitting for Dummies!

I'm in the process of buying a new bike, I have finally selected a few to try out after numerous weeks of online shopping, brochure reading and asking for advice. This leaves the question of what size bike to get??

I know we are all unique, that it is what feels best, etc. What I want to know is any quick points to check. I've been told in one bike that once sat on the bike the hub of the front wheel should be obscured by the stem (the handlebars I think he meant). If you can see the hubin front the top tube is too small, behind it is too long and the reach is not right. If that is true then it is little things like this.

The sort of things I used to look at were the height of the top tube when standing over it on the balls of your feet, the position of your knee over the front pedal when sat on the bike, etc. However I generally took the advice of the shop assistant as being right and went with whatever they said. I have never really had any problems with that but I do wonder if my ignorance means my body it just coping with an ill fitting bike. I have always been flexible with a strong core so bike position has never caused me any problems. That may not be the case in the future as we are all getting on with creaks in joints being inevitable with time.

As far as my size goes I am 6'5" tall with pretty much even upper/lower body split, guess an average leg/arm/torso legnth for someone my height. I am fortunate to be only 84kg so not a heavy build if that matters. I have been suggested 56 or 58 in a Cannondale (supposedly a bit generous with their sizes) but I am guessing a 58 or 60 might be better. What do you think for a road / CX bike? If it helps I am thinking of a Pinnacle Arkose or a Norco Threshold in case those brands are under or oversized for the measurement.

Either way any pointers or quick tricks to spotting a good fit would be very helpful. I am not a very discerning person as far as bike fit so some pointers or tricks would help me. The Cannondales I rode both fitted me as far as I thought.
by Tangled Metal
16 Feb 2015, 1:08pm
Forum: Bikes & Bits – Technical section
Topic: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?
Replies: 102
Views: 11040

Re: touring bike or sportive/"adventure road" bike?

Wrote a long answer to a few questions but it got wiped due to some logon issue. Well here goes I will try a quicker reply.

It is a 501 frame so perhaps not worth repairing and not really a good frame for a tourer conversion. Needs quill steerer wobble sorting and brakes need overhaul which probably means the original rims are goosed and I need a wheelset. Which might lead to replacing the shimano exage 400 7 speed groupset. Basically steering is dodgy (easy enough fix at my LBS) and the brakes are dodgy too (might be easy or might need a big expense). Gears are working well which at 25 years of age is probably amazing despite low mileage due to long spells off the bike. I can never sell it since it was my first bike purchase at 17 with money from a good summer job. My first decent bike so it has major sentimental attachment, I know that is daft for a machine but it represents all the rides out in the Ribble Valley on it = memories.

I have no touring experience but my partner has a lot of serious overseas touring off road routes from deepest China, South America and Eastern Europe (well off the beaten track). She is of the opinion that these CXer based bikes are suited to most of my riding (commuting and easy trails, even carrying the child). It would cope with loading to a tour weight in say western Europe where you are not needing serious loads. hostelling for example or with lightweight camping gear (of which we have serious light kit) at a later date. she toured with only rear panniers and a bar bag. I know tourers will be comfortable over a longer distance but realistically we are unlikely to spend the whole day in the saddle due to touring with a toddler. Even our day rides tend to follow a typical pattern of ride for up to an hour then get off the bikes to let the lad run around. The longest in the saddle would be when he has a nap which is not long enough. If we get into touring then that would be the time for a steel tourer of the kind that Spa sells (Dawes, Spa's own or perhaps save up for a Thorn tourer). Until then I am thinking of the Pinnacle Arkose 1, Norco Threshold A3 or perhaps Spesh diverge A1 or Whyte Suffolk (but these are more road based and not good if we go on trails. What do you think of these options?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/norco/threshold-a3-2015-cyclocross-bike-ec072589

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/pinnacle/arkose-one-2015-adventure-road-bike-ec071305