Cycling UK Forum

No two people ever agree on anything anyway when it comes to "advice".

One guy says "No one needs an 11t sprocket" then ten others all say they do need one, while ten others agree with him. That is just one of probably hundreds of things.

Being a "CTC technical officer" I can imagine the flak.

I remember my dad telling me he quit with his motorbike when he noticed Japanese bikes were overtaking him with half the power he had. Back then people were a lot more reluctant to go buy a Japanese one, at least my dad never got one. It was the principle lol. British is always best right guys.

I think people tend to exaggerate how good entry level stuff is though, I agree it is "adequate" in that it sort of works when first used, but it has never worked well for me even out of the box and leaves me riding around constantly wondering what the next model up might be like.

How many times have people said "Oh just get 105, the Ultegra won't work any better, its just a bit lighter" when Ultegra parts do work better, like shifters and rear mechs. I put a 6500 rear mech on and it shifts without any delay at all, whereas the newer 5701 shifted with a slight delay and the old 2300 shifted worse than either of them. I have used two XT mechs that also shifted well (one ancient, one brand new) but not as well as the Ultegra.

I agree for most people that don't use a bike that much, all this entry level stuff is adequate. Personally I can't cope with it.

The older used stuff is hard to find sometimes and I admit it might take more research (like people not telling you the cage length and you having to guess going off a picture of it). Thing is you can see if the jockey wheels are worn and mechs go for less usually when that is the case, or they were already replaced with alternatives on old used mechs.

Thats the advantage of auctions I guess, you'd pay £20 for a used mech but the jockey wheels are worn, well then you'd only pay £12 for it and so would everyone else, so it all works out equal, its not a rip off.

I had no rubbing on a 5701 rear mech and 8 speed chain, but then I was using M951 shifters with it. Maybe it isn't as accurate with cheaper shifters.

Brand new entry level stuff is throwing money away IMO if you can get used 105 or UItegra at around the same price.

Whats wrong with fitting really good equipment to a bike just because the bike is entry level?

That's like saying you can't put Continental tyres on a Fiat Panda, they have to be crap ones, even though if the Fiat Panda did have Continental tyres it would handle better.

I never tried a 2400 rear mech but the 2300 I initially had on wasn't that good, sloppy shifting. It depends if you want the chain to skip a little before it shifts up, or not.

I tried some Claris flat bar shifters and they were awful compared to 105/Ultegra/SLX/XT (used or not). Levers were stiff, especially on the front shifter, with delayed shifting at the rear and thats straight out of the box, it can only get worse. Those Claris shifters seemed to be about as good as those EF-50 shifters found on £260 full suspension mountain bikes. Those are the ones that chew the FD cable inside the unit, nice.

If I was OP I would be going for a used 9 speed Ultegra (6500) or 105 (5500).

I tried a RD-5701 rear mech on an 8 speed chain (and cassette) in the real world and it doesn't rub the rear mech plates. Some places selling that mech say it can be used on 8 and 9 speed. My only gripe with it is you can't have a low sprocket smaller than 25t with it (and they call this a road derailleur lol) hence sometimes you might need an older road mech, where a 27t max means 27t max and you can still use a 21t or 23t low sprocket.

That bike in the picture has a medium cage mech on it so make sure to get a medium cage rear mech aka "GS".

The Shimano 105 rear mech (RD-5701-GS) is a good punt at the moment (£25 delivered, from CRC) and will work on 9 and 10 speed if you ever decide to upgrade from 8 speed.

If your total chain capacity is 33t or less (on a Triban 3 with 50-39-30 with 12-25t it is exactly a 33t capacity). If you can get away with it, get a short cage, but the shop fitted a medium cage so you have to count up the total chain capacity.

Outer chainring teeth minus inner chainring teeth = 20
PLUS
Biggest cassette sprocket minus smallest cassette sprocket = 13
TOTAL = 33

If you don't want to spend £25 on a 105 mech, there's the Sora at about £16. Under Sora you don't have much choice unless you want something that is going to annoy you with sloppy shifting as soon as you first try it and I think even the Sora might be a bit that way. I would think the Sora swingarm would become loose after a few years whereas the 105 won't do. If you can stretch to £40+ get an Ultegra 10sp GS.

Or the best option IMO, get a used 9-speed Ultegra or Dura Ace, but you won't find a DA in a medium cage, only a picture of one lol, we just have to make do with pictures where that's concerned I'm afraid. Even if one came up I am sure it would be over £80 even if it was all scratched. I can't have one of those so I just got an old Ultegra 6500 in medium cage, was cheaper than a Sora.

As for the mech hitting a spoke it was probably the inner end of the upper jockey wheel screw in the lowest gear. Again cheap derailleurs are more likely to do this. I had an Altus rear mech on my Triban and had to file down that screw. Once I put an Alivio on it was fine and had more clearance. You get what you pay for.

Wheels on the Triban entry level bikes are notorious. My non drive side spokes were frighteningly loose and the dish was miles out. I had to readjust it so the rear tyre went about 7mm back the other way to get it central.

Loose non-drive side spokes means the rear mech swingarm bolts are going to be closer to their spokes than they should be. I bet its the NDS of your rear wheel. Some of my nipples were so loose I could almost turn them by hand. This is what you get with entry level stuff.

Pissoir, sounds like a foreign footballer.
He could play alongside Danny Shittu.

And running down the wing its Enrique Pissoir, he dribbles around Penor, he looks up, sees Danny Shittu to his right who receives the ball and in turn floats a great one in.

I had about 3 or 4 seatposts, all cost around £12-£15, all were rubbish.

Ended up getting a Thomson Elite, which was about the cost of the four cheap ones combined.

It does have a layback but its just not 25mm, it is 17mm.

Handy hint: If you get the Thomson Elite (or any expensive post), get the 27.2mm one and use a shim (unless you do have a 27.2mm seat tube lol) there's two reasons why I did this - firstly you can carefully put the shim on the post (shim has a split and you can flex it slightly to slide it on the post easier) then carefully put the post in the seat tube, without scratching anything. The shim (not the post itself) rubs against the inside of the tube when installing if you remember to push the shim down the seat tube, not the saddle/clamp/seat post itself. The second reason is a 27.2mm is a more common size than any other size and it should in theory sell pretty easily, if I ever did sell it - yeah right, its the perfect seatpost. The only annoying thing is the price but once you have got it you have got it.

I wouldn't have drawn them that way, but whatever.

As Freud once said "Not every cigar is a *****".

I forgot to go to Aldi but the chances of grabbing one of those £5 bike computers was probably slim.

Spinners wrote:Cycling must be booming...

I genuinely think it is. Having riders like Cav, Wiggo and Froome has to be helping.

The last big boom I know of was when mountain bikes came along, I mean everyone got one... but that was a long time ago now. I'm not sure what could cause a boom that big again in cycling. Stuff like Di2 might bring the masses in more when it ends up on 105 (or even Sora hehe), but I think the more savvy cyclists (or just, ones that are not racing) know to avoid all that stuff.

I think people expected 12-speed, 13-speed, 14-speed and endlessly on, back when cassettes were having sprockets added to them regularly over the space of not that many years and when it didn't happen, the novelty of it wore off. People probably thought cycling componentry had ground to a halt.

Most people can't grasp that it was already "getting silly" going to 9 sprockets, when it was originally 5. I remember my dad years ago saying stuff like "18 gears, you only need 10". Now you can have 33 gears.

I cannot believe how few people do cycle in the UK. It beats swimming or jogging hands down. I like actually going somewhere and you just can't really do that jogging.

OK cheers, I just didn't know the spacing changed from 7 to 8 speed.

When a set of new Shimano R501 wheels costs about £60 I might as well just get those, or some sort of slightly better used set at that kind of price.

All those years people used to say "Wow they can cram so many cogs in these days" and no one realized, no, they aren't, they are just making the dropout wider.

I have got some old wheels where the rear is a 6-speed with an internal freewheel in the cassette.

I want to put on a newer 8-speed cassette without rebuilding the entire wheel with a new hub and spokes.

I thought it would be a simple case of just screwing on a freehub body as a "converter", just the same way as you'd screw on a cassette freewheel? Then just slot a new cassette on the normal way, tight with the lockring, then pedalling would also tighten it up, aka the old way.

Either these things don't exist, it is not viable, or I just don't know the proper name of them.

The only problem I can see is you'd never be able to get that freehub back off that old hub, but who cares, why would you want it off again once its on! You can still just use a chain whip to remove the cassette lockring, its unlikely you'd un-tighten the freehub body off again, surely?

Maybe that is the sole reason... you'd never get the cassette back off because turning the lockring would unscrew the freehub body?

Not confident commuting around on 20/24h wheels. The wheels I want to do this with are 36/36h touring Mavics. Probably double the strength of the wheels I am on now.

EDIT:
"The biggest issue you will have is that the rear dropout spacing standard changed between 6/7 and 8 spd."

Even so, they could make freehubs that screw onto old rear hubs and take this into account? So they could just have "6/7 speed freewheel to 6/7 speed freehub body" and another option "6/7 speed freewheel to 8/9 speed freehub body" or something. No because then the dish on the wheel would have to be different...

Or try to get hold of a rear hub thats got the exact same flange on it as the old hub and reuse the spokes, urgh.

I think I might just buy a pair of those Shimano R501 wheels and have done with it.

You see this? This is the worlds smallest violin playing just for PX.

Philip Benstead wrote:Derailleurs compatibility and recommendations

Road 8/9/10 speed mechs and cassettes are all compatible and those are also compatible with MTB 8/9 speed mechs and cassettes, provided you get the right cage length for your setup (SS/GS/SGS) and make sure it can physically take the biggest sprocket.

Don't forget, shifters have to be the same speed as the cassette, but the mech doesn't care about the cassette and the cassette doesn't care about the mech.

I think 6/7 speeds are also all compatible with the above and can be thrown in with 8/9/10-road too, but I'm not sure.

With MTB 10 speed it changes and its not compatible with road 10 speed or MTB 8/9 speed either, whereas MTB 9 speed (and 8 speed) would be compatible with road 10-speed.

With 11 speed... it is again different and you then need a 11s rear hub for a start.

Something I don't know and want to know is if a 11-speed MTB right shifter (M9000) is the right cable pull for a 11-speed road rear mech (because, I want to use a 11-23t cassette on a flat bar road bike and a MTB 11spd rear mech won't shift well on a close ratio cassette, that bottoms out at 23t).

Philip Benstead wrote:Do I assume correctly that a rear derailleurs for a 9 speed with work on an 8 speed?

Yes.

Philip Benstead wrote:Also can anybody recommend the following?

Rear derailleur
Front derailleur

Range to use
Rear 11 to 28 x 8
Front 22/32/46

Rear mech: XT RD-M772 medium cage.
Front mech: Any 8 or 9 speed XT triple (or even XTR).
Cassette: That Alivio 11-28t CS-HG51
Chain: KMC 8-speed.

If you want to spend less, just get a used rear mech like SLX.

I've only got three words to say to it: Central, nervous and system.

I worked out jogging is about 4 times harder than cycling. So a 20 mile bike ride is like a 5 mile jog. Thing is you can roll down hills on a bike but you can't do that jogging, urgh, makes me get out of breath just thinking about it, no one needs to be that fit. Then there's the knee thing. I am all for minimalism but it doesn't extend to jogging, no way, no how.

The only time I ever jogged 5 miles in one go was when I was drunk at 2AM and the taxi I rang never showed up. I remember running, walking, running, walking lol. It was like four HIIT sessions back to back but you don't care when you've had a skinful. Muscles around my ankles were so sore the next morning I could hardly move them.