Cycling UK Forum

mearlski wrote:I have just started commuting to work (3 times a week) and doing 11 miles each way. Now if it was bike setup surley both arms would ache?!?

Not necessarily, I managed to give myself a fairly nasty case of golfers elbow (medial epicondylitis) in the right arm only from doing a series of longer rides on my old hybrid (flat bars). There may well have been contributing causes but it was the rides that really set it off.

You (presumably) don't use your arms evenly in the rest of your life and so there can easily be weaknesses present in one arm that aren't in the other. The cycling could then simply exposing this weakness. It may be setup that's wrong, it may just be getting used to it or you might have to identify and strengthen whatever weakness is the issue.

The latter can be particularly tricky as the source of the issue can be anywhere in the limb. Eg a weak grip/forearm can cause a variety of problems in the rest of the arm because the default for the body is to attempt to compensate with the stronger muscles, this then simply exacerbates the problem.

If it's continued for more than a couple of weeks and/or getting worse that would suggest it's not the getting used to so it's either setup or exposing some issue. For the former it's initially worth checking some guides on setups just to check there's nothing obviously wrong.

For the latter it might be worth seeing a physio. There's an increasing number of NHS trusts and gp surgeries allowing self referral to physio which takes much of the faff of having to book and wait for a gp appointment first.

thirdcrank wrote:It's my impression as an interested observer that Highways England are well advanced with the process of marginalising police involvement in the operation of motorways and as soon as they can complete the process there will be a lot more automatic enforcement eg motorways lend themselves to average speed checks over extended sections. I fancy highwaymen are less sensitive to accusations of using cash cows than are police chiefs.

The entire strategic road network is covered in ANPR cameras (for one thing that's where the signs stating 'x mins to junction y' get their info from*, it's also where http://tris.highwaysengland.co.uk/detail/journeytimedata comes from) and has been for years, if it was politically acceptable for them to be issuing tickets on that they already would be. As it is, it isn't so you'll only find enforcement for specific reasons, be that safety, congestion management or air quality.

Generally motorways are by far the safest roads in the UK, it's a bit misguided to focus on them. As for rolling this technology into urban areas, it has been talked about but use of average speed checks is rendered mostly pointless by junctions. You could be exceeding 30mph frequently but since you have to slow for turns the average speed is rarely over 30.

*when they first started doing those messages they'd report times that required going in excess of 70mph to achieve occasionally as on the motorways with lighter HGV traffic the average speed gets closer to 80mph at times. After this was pointed out the calculation was capped to 70mph...

karlt wrote:Automatic tailgating policing wouldn't be difficult. All you've got to do is set a camera to trigger when two vehicles pass in the same lane within two seconds of each other, and if they're still too close (because innocent closing up can happen if the lead vehicle slows suddenly) at the next camera, automatic FPN to the following vehicle.

Given the amount of the network that operates in excess of 1800 veh/hr/lane I can't see them setting the threshold at 2 seconds if they were to do that.

mjr wrote:I don't understand why so many hybrid/utility bikes have sole-destroying (soul-destroying? feels like it when you tread in a puddle after pedals have bitten a hole!) pedals instead of true flats.

I use wellgo v8 copies for my utility bike. The problem with rubber/plastic pedals for me is the grip is very inconsistent between various shoes as soon as any water gets involved to the point that is simply downright dangerous with some pairs.

I've not found the small pins to be particularly sole destroying though, even on softer soles.

elioelio wrote:Does anyone have experience riding long distance wearing cheap floppy(ish) shoes? Any problems with unhitching your feet from the pedals in cycling shoes?

Honestly this is a totally individual thing I'm afraid. The easiest thing is probably to do a few longer rides and see if your feet ache from it. Best to find out now rather than part way into a touring holiday .

Personally I'm fine all day in crap shoes on flat pedals and if I'm out on a leisurely more social ride i tend to do just that.

If it's a faster ride then I tend to prefer being clipped in but that's mostly as I feel I can put a bit more effort in rather than a foot comfort issue.

Regarding unclipping, that's mostly a practice thing. It becomes second nature once you get used to it. If you're starting out on SPDs you can set the clip tension really low and use the SH56 silver cleats that will detach in pretty much any direction. Then just tighten things up as your confidence grows. Even at moderate to higher tension settings the silver cleats will release fairly easily on anything other than a directly upwards tug.

The kaff 2 fork is 400mm axle to crown and approx 40mm offset if you want to compare to your carbon fork. The kaff one is not the most compliant of forks about so might be worth a switch if your carbon one is a similar size, if the bike it came from was more aimed at the commuter/cross market it may well be.

For the panniers it's a combination of chainstay length, crank length, foot size and how the rack and panniers fit. I'd be a little concerned if you're getting heel hits on the galaxy though as the kaffenback chainstays are 415mm while current galaxy's are 445mm so you're losing 30mm of room there. It may come down to the rack and bags though. I'm using an old topeak rack with ortlieb rollers, have size 10 feet, 170mm cranks and a fairly toe heavy cycling style and still have a couple of cm room. I do have the bags setup to mount about as far back as they will go mind.

Also note that the kaffenback has the disc caliper mounted on the seat stay so you'll need a rack that can work around that, tubus might be worth a look as they have an adaptor that extends rearwards rather than outwards which will give you more heel clearance.

For mudguards I'm using some fairly standard sks ones, 45mm width. The kaffenback frame has fairly normal mounts (though only one set of eyelets at the rear so the guards share with the rack). I had to do a bit of bending with the front stays to get them under the disc caliper but otherwise fitting was fine.

olivermleach wrote:the frame is very versatile with full mounts/eyelets, room for 32c tyres and to top it off is disc brake ready for the future).

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding your intentions but the kaff 2 frame is disc only. There are no mounts for rim brakes.

karlt wrote:I wonder this. I've got a Triban 520SE, worth around 300 notes new.

If I went out to one of the specialist bike shops and parted company with ten times that for one of the big names, what difference would it actually make?

I think you've picked a bit of an extreme example there. If you change names there are other factors. In part you can certainly just be paying for the name but there's also other differences such as the offers of lifetime frame warranty and a larger chance of a nearby shop to be able to test ride in. The big names also tend to be less likely to skimp on the parts of the bike spec people don't normally look at but actually can make a reasonable difference (cable quality, hubs, etc).

Obviously there's the bespoke builders but that's a different matter altogether, they can be very good for those who are some distance from the 'average' shaped person.

A better comparison might be the more expensive bikes in decathlon's range. If you move up to £880 (Mach 720) you lose a good 2kg from the weight and particularly a few hundred grams of that from the wheels (does actually make a difference to acceleration). The hubs may also be better quality so will last longer and more likely to have the preload set correctly. The frame is carbon so should generally feel nicer and a bit more supple on the bum. The brakes might also be a bit better (I noticed one review mentioned the btwin own brand ones on the 520 are a little weak).
The bottom bracket/crankset will also be a bit stiffer which you might notice. However external bb tend to wear quicker than square tapers.

Things that won't really make much difference (aside from the weight savings) are:

The gearing will move to 105 which most road enthusiasts will claim makes for far more 'precise' and 'faster' shifting though ime that's rubbish. A properly setup claris/sora system doesn't miss changes, shift speed is entirely dependent on when the next ramp/pin arrives on the cassette/chainring and the number of those is the same across the range. And as for the smoothness and lightness that's more down to the cables used than anything else. Put a some nice cables on the lower groupsets and they feel smooth too and they're not expensive.

The saddle may or may not be better, thing is, saddle fits are very personal things, most will find an aftermarket one that is nicer than whatever came on the bike and then just keep that saddle when getting a new bike.

Tyres will be better but again they're cheap and easy to change and essentially consumables.

Move up again to the £2k bike (ultra 720 CF) is really more of the same, lighter (Inc another 200g off the wheels), stiffer. Ultegra gears (more of that fabled smoothness - unless decathlon have skimped on the cables ) etc.

So ultimately you mostly get a lighter and stiffer bike. You also gain some additional quality and durability though much of that could be present on the cheaper bike for a relatively small increase in cost.

Quite what % speed increase that lightness and stiffness results in would be an interesting experiment, though tricky to undertake fairly.

Samuel D wrote:

Bonefishblues wrote:Sure 154mph makes a good headline

Let’s be realistic: it’s also fantastically dangerous, even in the dead of night. At a speed of over 3 miles a minute and with a braking distance of close to a quarter of a mile (per thirdcrank above), not to mention the likelihood that the car was barely stable enough to stay in one lane at that speed, there can be no pretending he’s only putting himself at risk.

Speeds of 140 or 150 something are actually not massively uncommon on the UK motorway network during the wee hours, a cursory browse through the loop data will demonstrate that. If it were that fantastically dangerous then we'd surely be seeing far more burning wrecks as a result. Modern cars are remarkably stable at faster speeds and will outperform the 'official' braking distances by a huge margin.

That's not to excuse his behaviour (I'm less concerned about the ban length, would like to see him have to retake an extended test though) but it does need perspective. I'd rank this far lower than the 120 in a 30 or even things like use of phone and other general not paying attention where you get off with a few points and a fine. The majority of KSIs especially for vulnerable road users happen at junctions within the posted speed limit and get shrugged off as 'accidents'.

TheBinarySheep wrote:Thanks for the advice so far.

The only downside with the Carrera is my wife is 5'3 - 5'4, and the Carrera only comes in a 16" frame, which 'may' be a little to big for her. Online hybrid size guides say she should need between 15-16", so maybe we'll have to go to the shop and try it for size.

Bike sizes vary hugely by model. It's simply the length of the seat tube which ultimately is a poor indicator of what size person a bike is aimed at as it varies based on top tube slope.

You're better looking at the guide for each bike model, for that carrera halfords are suggesting the 18" frame for 5'2 to 5'6, the 16 is probably too small.

With the second hand bikes, most manufacturers maintain archives of all their old bike models on their sites so you should be able to dig up sizing for those if needed.

However if that giant does indeed have suspension I'd agree on the avoid. Cheap front suspension forks mostly just add weight and really aren't needed on hybrid bikes.

You can still pick up some very good bargains second hand though, you may well be able to get something better than the carrera for less.

Another completely obscure thing (once you've checked the usual mechanical issues) that can make a click noise is the reflectors on the pedal. Give them a poke and check they're not a bit loose.

If you've got relatively long legs for your height the 54cm should be OK.

If you're short legged and long torso then perhaps not given 6ft 2in is at the top end of the recommended height.

You might also want to have a poke round an Evans if you have one nearby if you fancy a few more options.

Obviously at either you'll be able to test ride before buying. I don't know about halfords exact policy on that but Evans allow you to take it outside for a bit providing you leave a card in their locker. They also allow up to two bikes to be ordered in for a £50 refundable deposit per bike incase you want to compare bikes or sizes.

Dave W wrote::? not exactly. Because the way I see it provided I have full charge of my faculties I'm extremely unlikely to have the same accident on the stairs as I will on a bike. In the house I'ts more than likely It would be entirely my fault, very little else comes into play. However, on a bike the way I see it more reasons for an accident outside of my control come into play. I can't predict, an animal darting under my front wheel, I don't know the next bend is smothered in cow poo ..... etc..... It is the unpredictability of each ride that encourages me to try and protect myself and past experience tells me it would be a good idea to at least try.

Perhaps then you should have put the original question as:

"Is there any reason you wouldn't wear a helmet when pushing your bike and yourself to the limit?"

and it might have been rather less contentious. Saying that, if your road riding is in such a manner to be that risky I wonder why you're not also considering other forms of protective gear (eg wrist guards)?

Also it's a little much to suggest those things are completely outside your control. They largely were within your control but you've elected to relinquish that through the way you're cycling. That is fine, and very much your choice* and it's mostly yourself and your group who've made the same choices that are being put at risk. It's worth considering though that if a car was going round a bend at such a speed that they could not stop in time for the unexpected and collided with an unseen pedestrian, or cyclist, they'd probably end up getting charged and/or ending up in the 'lenient sentencing' thread.

*I do precisely the same thing when mtbing, hence why I wear protective stuff when doing so.

Mick F wrote:Now, if you're on inner and give one full sweep to middle, then want to go back to inner, you need TWO clicks ........ when it took only one click before.
This must mean that there's FOUR clicks in there somewhere.
Darned if I can find them!

Shimano works on two clicks per chainring but the trim click (the outer one of each ring) is a kind of 'sub' click. If you drop to a smaller chainring the ratchet system bypasses the trim position for that smaller chainring and you go straight to the inner position. To get back therefore takes two clicks.

Similarly if you're in the trim position and want to go down there's a smaller release first to the non trimmed position and then a larger release if you press further, which due to the above, will then go straight to the non trimmed position of the ring below.

As for your 20mm issue, I'm wondering if the levers are gunked up a bit and so you're having to bring the paddle that far out to get it to reset for the next downshift.

Mick F wrote:BTW, I've just measured.
The tip of the release lever of the RH STI has to move 43mm before it clicks. That's nearly two inches per separate individual single click.
A terrible bit of design IMHO.

Do you have to release the lever fully to reset the release mechanism?? That sounds horrible, and not normal! On mine (105 5700s), there is some slack (about 30mm) until the release point is reached but it's then only the following 7mm or so that needs to be clicked repeatedly to go up gears, no need to fully release the lever each change.

Samuel D wrote:That is interesting. Is that line or some of its traffic not yet electrified?

If i recall correctly, the only electric lines from Paddington are the Heathrow trains and possibly some other local services. Everything else is diesel, hence the pollution.

Wow, popular thread.

In short:

Can't be bothered for utility & leisure riding purposes. Particularly for the former what the heck am i supposed do wth the thing when i get to the shops/pub/whatever. Work's ok i guess since you can take it in but lugging round the shops etc, just a pain. And while leaving it locked to the bike is an option that would require me to both remember to take my cable and run the risk of it being damaged in the wilds of bike stands.

Leisure riding less of a hassle but ultimately I'm out for a ride, not a race and cycle accordingly. I'm also a complete chicken in descents so no danger there either.

Mtbing I do wear a helmet but frequently question both why I bother and, if I am bothering why i don't get a proper full face helmet that might come with some actual protective capability. For night rides it does make for a handy light mount though!

Since retaking up cycling as an adult (about 7 years) i have undertaken uncontrolled dismounts once on my road bike, about thrice on utility and numerous times on my MTB. Despite all that i have hit my head zero times. Not even a light scratch or knock. Why is this? Because generally i try to not make a habit of attacking the ground/objects with my face/head. On the few occasions I've gone over the front i use my arms. First time as a novice that resulted in broken limbs which was not pleasant, subsequently through mtb practice i now manage the whole rolling thing. The other occasions have all been generally sideways landings on my hips and shoulders usually through lack of traction 'lowsider' style (though the road bike incident was technically high side as a result of some oncoming kid overtaking his parent on a cycle path straight into my right handlebar who then had the audacity to stand straight up and bawl out floods of crocodile tears despite clearly being fine while i had blood running down my leg not that I'm grumpy about that still or anything...).

I've generally considered it the case that if something is going to impact my head without me being able to react to it then it'll be doing sufficient speed that the 12mph maximum reduction provided by a typical road helmet isn't going to help. And on the road i find the best safety measure is to assume everyone else is at minimum utterly incompetent and possibly actively malicious and assume they will act accordingly. I find this is a fairly good way of avoiding collisions when driving too. Yes, sometimes this means easing off a little even when it's my right if way unless i can be sure a driver waiting to pull out has seen me. This is basic H&S, PPE should be a last resort. I do see a number of cyclists who seem to treat 'right if way' like it's as protective as movie plot armour, in my own anecdotal observations this tendency seems to be correlated with the quantity of Lycra and general 'pro-ness'.

Aside from that there's the more ideological stance of that the obsession with helmets gives a false impression that cycling is somehow dangerous which is not helpful from the point of view of trying to encourage it as an everyday mode of transport. This is despite head injuries for pedestrians and car occupants being as high if not higher. Helmet use is fairly solidly correlated with how car obsessed and backwards a countries transport policies are.