Cycling UK Forum

Hi dudes.
Check out this Viscount on fleabay UK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI. ... SS:GB:1123

I thought I had seen every thing over the years but this one defies belief. The bike is badged as an 'International' from the Viscount range but it has an Aerospace frame. The 'International' range were all lugged framed lower priced/spec'd models e.g. 'Sebring', 'Colorado'. The ebay bike has a full Aerospace Pro spec. and Aerospace frame. To add further confusion the forks are not of the 'death' variety being conventional steel with a box crown.

This bike never officially existed. One off factory job built to order? Prototype? One off show bike?

Shame I am skint as to a Viscount fan like me, this bike is extraordinary. Please, someone buy this unique piece of history or it will probably end up as a hack or get broken for a 'fixie' - aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!

By the way bendo, your freshly painted frame/DA parts look fantastic!

Bendo wrote:Hey Mr OP, good to have you back! See how your correspondence piles up in your absence?

Re the decals, the price was 12 quid, including postage.

Thanks for all the info on the last batch of forum members' bikes. Very interesting to a Viscount tragic like myself.

Speaking of full chrome forks, I had my original forks rechromed a while back. When my frame finally came back from the powder-coater (took 4 months, but that's another story...) and my mechanic was cleaning up the frame, he found that the headset locking ring just kind of floated down over the steerer tube thread. The <i>[rude word removed]</i> chrome-platers had left the forks in the dip for so long it had eaten the thread. Couldn't tell to look at, but now totally useless.

Upshot is, that build has just incurred an extra $150 for my mechanic to source some comparable forks. And it's still not finished.

More nerdy detail you might be interested in, my mechanic also said when he was preparing the frame and taking off some of the original paint, he thought it wasn't powdercoat because of the kind of primer or something. Said he'd be prepared to put money on it being some kind of enamel.

Another thing (and this is really trainspottery and pointless), I'm putting in a first gen Dura Ace BB set as my BB shell was tapped with an Italian thread years ago (original BB seized when water got down seat tube). The mechanic found that, not being and Italian BB shell it was 4.67mm too narrow to take the Dura Ace cups securely. So he machined up two spacers, each 2.33mm thick. Kind of nice to know the guy working on your bike works to those kinds of tolerances!

b

It's great to be back.

Thanks for letting me know the price.

Just recently, I have had a lot of wheel problems. Specifically, the bearings have become loose in the Lambert/Viscount hubs. When this happens you cannot take out the side to side wheel play with the adjuster nuts. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Now, this problem has reared its ugly head on both old hubs and wheels I had built up with new old stock hub too. What's going on then?

It seems that the wheels did not have very straight axles (yes even those with new hubs!) causing excessive strain on the bearing cartridge as the hubs turned. Over time (i.e. barely 100 miles on one bike with new hubs!) the bearing outer race (steel) ever so slightly enlarges the recess in the hub (alloy) where it sits. I've managed to save the odd wheel by using new bearings with bearing lock. Yes, the new bearings are effectively glued in place with the lock compound filling the small gaps between the cartridge and the hub recess. What a pain but, so far, the glue is holding every thing in place!

As if that wasn't bad enough, I have had to scrap one hub because it has lost its shape! That's a first for me. When you look down on the wheel and spin the hub whilst holding the axle you wouldn't believe how much the hub wobbles.

I've heard rumours in the past that there were quality control issues with some of the Viscount parts and that the alloy in the hubs was too soft. Well, it seems that there is some truth in this if my experiences are anything to go by. Or, I may have been unlucky and been using factory reject parts that somehow got out into the market. Suppose I'll never know.

Just thought I would share these experiences with you all.

The Shimano hubs on one of my Viscounts are perfect by the way and can take any amount of abuse.

Finally got my wheel problems sorted and set off for a ride only for the left hand crank to fall off. But that story will have to wait for another day.

dnrc wrote:Hi mate.

cheers for the info. I did actually use that pic of yours for comparisons before I bought it as i figured it was the same model.

In what way is my chainset different? it looks the same as yours (although your pic isn't the biggest)

I'm going to clean it up, change the seat and bars/brakelevers and paint the fork to start with and see where we go.

Hi

Sounds like you bike will be fantastic when it has been cleared up. Would be great if you posted some pics of the finished bike.

Your chain set is a Sugino 'Super Maxy' rather than the good old Sugino 'Maxy' fitted to the Aerospace Sport. I think that the Super Maxy chainset is a later model and is of higher quality too.

dnrc wrote:Final price was £51, i got it for a discounted 50!!

The forks are nasty, kinda pink and faded. they will want painting or replacing sharpish!

Apart from that it's not bad at all, there are a fair few chip but that's to be expected, a good cleanup will do wonders. I've ordered a seatpost (i believe it's 26.8?) so i can swap the saddle. I quite like the bullbars myself so may run with that for now. Will obviously tidy the cables and change the bar tape and brake levers. Either for aero's or TT ones. Unless anyone has other suggestions?

The stem is nice!

A few more pics:

It is a 1976 Viscount Aerospace Sport. WHAT A BARGAIN! Due to its age a few parts have been changed which is to be expected e.g. freewheel, bar stem, pedals, forks, chainset


The forks are NOT original. Best swap them for some full chrome jobs!

Here's some pics of my Viscount Aeropsace Sport. It is the same age as yours and is original apart from the rear derailleur cable. Hope it gives you some ideas.
Click on them to enlarge.
Cheers.

ajayen wrote:Hi everyone, I've been following this topic for a couple of years now and thought it was time I added my own contribution.
I bought this Grand Sport on 31st August 1979, it's frame number is 11244, it cost me £147-00 and I still have the receipt from the LBS where I bought it, which is also where my Dad bought my first tricycle in 1949 when I was three years old, (support your LBS!!).
It has Shimano 600 mechs with SR Apex chain rings, Weinmann 999 centre pull brakes and SR stem, I changed the seat-post to an SR one, the saddle to a gel one, I still have both the originals, and added EsGe mudguards. It now rolls on Conti Ultra Sport tyres and the BB has never given up, yet. The gum rubber brake lever hoods are cracking now but I have a pair of Cane Creek replacements, black but they fit OK.

Stunning Grand Sport!! Museum quality condition too. What more could any one want?

Although you got it in 1979 it is a 1978 model.

It is worth noting that by 1978/79 the huge stash of Lambert parts were all but gone resulting in great reliance on Japanese parts mainly from Shimano and SR.

oldnick wrote:There are fully lugged aerospace frames. The very early and late ones had lugs, they're the strongest aerospace frames. It even has a 'hand crafted in England' Viscount sticker. Does it have a frame number anywhere, try under the bottom bracket?

If you don't mind, I would like to add a bit more information here.

The early 'Aerospace' frames were always lugless EXCEPT the Aerospace Victor model which had lugs on the headtube only.

The very first Lambert frames used the same 'Aerospace' frame tubing as Viscount and were fully lugged.

In Viscount's later years - 1980 onwards - they offered fully lugged frames made with what they called at the time "Viscount tubing" (which was the old Aerospace tubing which they still had stocks of).

There are a few fully lugged old Aerospace frames but these were one offs made primarily for professional cyclocross racers. One of those would be nice!!!

Hope this clarifies things.

wyadvd wrote:Just aquired a fixie from a LBS who was using it as an advert fro their shop in town.

any experts out there? Its a Viscount frame I think circa around 1978, with a sturmer archer dropout(facing forwards kinda) a nice flip flop on a rigida french wheel. TA straight cranks (only one banana for a Q).

My problem is no amount of googling will nail the frame date and model. I think it says Viscount President, but a bit worn. Anyone an expert on Viscount frames?

And I love riding it. everyone should try riding a fixie at least once. need to perfect my skid and track stand but itll come!

15 miles each way commuter (soon to be 20)

Posts: 366
Location: Kent

photo album taken this morning , Im off to work on it now!:

https://picasaweb.google.com/wyadvd/Jul ... directlink


http://www.endomondo.com/profile/756236

The frame is off a Viscount 'President'. This model was out in 1978.

The President had a sit up and beg riding position, 3 speed SA hub gears, sprung saddle, flat bars, steel hubs/rims, Weinmann side pull brakes, steel cottered chainset, a large plastic saddlebag, full mudguards and a dynamo lighting set. It was a kind of commuter come weekend tourer bike.

The frames were made in Taiwan from what is affectionately known as 'gas pipe' tubing. Don't let that put you off though because the frames area very strong if a bit on the heavy side. In the 1970's Taiwanese frame building was relatively new but as we all know know, they got it right and have since all but taken over. Viscount just helped them along!

chickenwing wrote:Just picked this bad boy up this is my first bicycle since i was about 7 (19 now) and i have to say, im so happy i chose this viscount out of all the bikes down there,
Ive absolutly fallen in love with them and now im trying to get all the info i can on them, ive been going through this thread but i still cant identify this bike completely, so if any one could help that would be awesome.
Its a 5 speed with mostly shimano parts. im not to sure on how many of the parts are the originals.
I have the original stem with the v dust cap i just have to find a new allen for it before i can throw it on.

What a NICE bike!!! It is a Viscount Aerospace Sport, probably late 1976. It will originally have come with a Shimano 50 front derailleur. Also the Sugino 42 tooth front chainring is missing. Whoever took that off must have huge thighs because the gearing is very high with a 52 tooth front chainring!
For some reason blue Aerospace Sports are not that common. Back in the day, most people seem to have gone for the red ones (myself included, ahem).
The down tube gear levers, bar stem and bar tape are the most obvious none original parts. It looks like the 'V' branded seat post pinch bolt is missing too.
I have new genuine Aerospace Sport top tube stickers if you want them. I sold some to Bendo a while back. Thing is I can't remember how much for! Bendo if you are reading this, can you remember?
Polish, ride and enjoy.

Bendo wrote:

busaste wrote: keep an eye out for an early 116mm long Klein BB spindle. That would be there or there abouts for 7 - 8 speed and modern offset cranks. Fortunately for us Klein copied the Lambert/Viscount sealed bearing BB (but have never acknowledged it as far as I can tell). The Klein spindle is a very well made rugged piece of kit. It has no circlip grooves instead relying on Loctite to hold it all in place. Keep looking on eBay as they do turn up. I have a 122mm long Klein spindle. Don't go there though. It is just too long and messes up the chainline. Believe me I tried...

Hey Busaste, just had a look at my two spindles and there's hope for the Dura Ace, as it is asymmetrical but it is only 113mm I hope the cranks will clear the right hand chain stay...

OTOH the OEM Viscount spindle is 126mm! According to your post above that seems a bit long. I'll attach a pic below for you to see if it looks to you like a true Viscount spindle. It cerainly has circlips and is asymmetrical. b

That's a Viscount BB spindle alright. The length variation is a common feature of Viscount's BB spindle. Some were made in house whereas others were sourced from external suppliers. Viscount had problems with their BB spindles - wrong lengths, variable tapers, circlip grooves in the wrong place, etc.

126mm may be a bit on the long side but it is still worth a try. Your spindle has a JIS taper and two circlip grooves which shows it is one of the later Aerospace ones intended for use with SR/Sugino cranks. It does not work well with a Viscount/Lambert crank as the tapers are different (in fact the Viscount crank taper seems to be unique to that company!!!).

Before you put the spindle in give it a BIG polish. The shinier the better!! This helps it to slide in easier. Put some copper grease on too to stop it siezing in place (sorry if you already know this).

DannytheLuddite wrote:Hi busaste

Thanks for once more coming up with a detailed and helpful answer. After reading it, I went back and measured the BB spindle and, sure enough, the RH side projects 28.5mm but the LH side projects only 25.5mm. Maybe that is why I also have an iffy right knee...

So I am now thinking that if possible I ought to leave the existing BB alone - there is after all nothing wrong with it. My quest was for an 7/8 speed double chainset that (a) fits on a square taper spindle and (b) has a small chainring with no more than 40 teeth and (c) doesn't look completely out of place on a 1970s bike. The one I bought, a Shimano Sora 3300, met those criteria but is hopelessly out of line on a 122mm spindle. It has to be a 7 or 8 speed chainset because I'm now running a 7-speed freewheel and matching chain, and on two or three occasions the chain has dropped between the two chainrings and jammed there - not good. Plus the chainrings are worn, and generally don't go very well with a new narrow chain. Perhaps I'll just keep watching on eBay and see if anything better comes up.

keep an eye out for an early 116mm long Klein BB spindle. That would be there or there abouts for 7 - 8 speed and modern offset cranks. Fortunately for us Klein copied the Lambert/Viscount sealed bearing BB (but have never acknowledged it as far as I can tell). The Klein spindle is a very well made rugged piece of kit. It has no circlip grooves instead relying on Loctite to hold it all in place. Keep looking on eBay as they do turn up. I have a 122mm long Klein spindle. Don't go there though. It is just too long and messes up the chainline. Believe me I tried...
Here is a Klein BB.

quiksilver wrote:The main motivation for my bike riding as an adult was because of the great cycling memories I had from childhood, that first freedom you feel from owning and riding a bike.

Me too! My first bike was a Viscount (of course) and I've been reminiscing ever since!!

DannytheLuddite wrote:My Aerosopace Sport has sealed bearings that are an interference fit in the bottom bracket shell. Does anyone know whether the shell can be threaded to take a modern sealed bearing cartridge?

Background: I managed to find a NOS 8speed chainset to replace the worn SR APEX chainset that was put on the bike many years ago, but found out too late that it is designed for a 110mm spindle. The original spindle is about 122mm, but I didn't realise until I'd removed the old chainset and tried to fit the new one.

If you look at page 9 on this thread you will see a post I did on Viscount's BB. There are plenty of options!

Some extra information to consider:

a) Klein made a BB spindle that is I think 116mm long. It has no grooves for circlips but don't worry you fix it in place by Loctite (same for the Phil Wood spindle but these are rarer than hen's teeth). This Klein spindle would be perfect for modern offset cranks.

b) BUT there is a caveat to a) above (you mean you thought it was going to be easy?). Viscount Aerospace frames have an unusual chainline. Let me explain. Look carefully at the OEM BB spindle; there is more metal beyond the circlip on the RH side than the LH side. This makes the RH pedal sit further away from the frame's seat tube than the LH pedal. I've measured all my Viscount Aerospace bikes (that's the ones with fillet brazed frames) and my stash of OEM BB spindles (for sealed bearings)and found this to be the case. Without exception the RH pedal sticks out between 3 - 6mm more than the one on the left. Further investigation has revealed why. The rear hub is set up on its axle to sit close to the inner face of the RH drop out. This is good in a way because you do not need too much dishing on the freewheel side of the wheel. That gives a stronger wheel and less strain on the hub. To get a good chainline with a back wheel set up like this, the cranks/chainrings have to stick out further on the RH side than would normally be the case. Curiously though, Viscount did not produce an equivalent amount of beyond circlip length on the LH side to balance things out. I've no idea why. It worries me a bit. Would asymmetrical pedal spacing be damaging to the body? Does it matter if you right foot sits further out in relation to the bodies centre line than the left? ALL my Aerospace models are set up like this. It is the way the factory did it. If you ride a VA model with a fillet brazed frame there is no escaping this. If you put a more conventional back wheel in the frame it really does pull the freewheel a good way over to the left. This is only a problem though if you use the Aerospace BB spindle. My friendly LBS (Hewitt Cycles - top place) worked out the correct distance between the centre of the seat tube and the centre of the space between the two chainrings. It should be 41.5mm to give a perfect chainline WITH A OEM Viscount back wheel. On one of my Aerospace Pros the actual distance is 47.5mm and that is with an OEM BB spindle/cranks/chainrings. Strewth, 6mm out! No wonder it eats chains and my right knee feels a bit iffy...

So, there you go. A few more things to think about!!

oldnick wrote:He may have purchased it in the late seventies, I can't remember exactly when. I do remember my brother telling me it was made of aerospace bar when he purchased it. The dealer made a big thing about it. I just spoke with him and he confirmed it was sold as an aerospace. He reckons he might still have the purchase invoice, he's going to look for it.

Nice bike!

It does have the 'Aerospace' frame tubing albeit joined with lugs rather than the low temperature fillet brazing of the earlier 'Aerospace' models e.g. Aerospace Pro, GP, Sport, etc. The frame was made at the Potters bar factory. It was the none Aerospace/Columbus frames which were made in Taiwan. These frames used ordinary 'gas pipe' tubing BUT they were well made, strong and reliable if a tad heavy.

Valuing a Viscount is very difficult. Prices are all over the place as the market does not know what to make of them. Nonsense about death forks, cheap alloy parts, Lambert engineering, etc, etc. has not helped. Early Aerospace Pros fetch the biggest prices but even with these I've seen them go for £75. There are a few Viscount collectors out there but they tend to go for the early stuff and it has to be mint too.

Viscount frames do seem to be increasingly popular with the 'fixie' fraternity. If you have one on eBay at a time when a couple of fixie fans are looking for a good Viscount frame then the price could go sky high as a bidding war breaks out. You just never know.

Any way, from my experience, mid range 1980s Viscounts like yours tend to fetch somewhere between £40 - £100. You would need a bit of luck for the latter price but that's the beauty of eBay I suppose; all sorts of things can happen!!

By the way, I wish to state this important fact for Viscount fans: YAMAHA NEVER OWNED VISCOUNT. I've read a fair few times that Yamaha bought out Viscount but it is completely untrue. Yamaha wouldn't have touched the company with a bargepole!!! I suspect that with hindsight, Yamaha probably regretted being Viscount's USA distributor. The 10 speed racer boom collapsed in 1976/7 after which they couldn't shift Viscount's from the massively overstocked warehouses. Then there was the pointless, ill advised fork recall in 1981. You think they would have learnt from the Lambert debacle.

Try selling it on the CTC forum first at a price you want. Miles cheaper than eBay and it would go to a 'proper' cyclist!!!!

Happy selling.

I have a Viscount Aerospace Sport 22" frame for sale. Paint could be better and the fork's chrome has bits of rust. BUT, it comes with a new original Viscount Aerospace Sport/Viscount frame stickers and Viscount bottom bracket spindle and sealed bearings.

The price is £27 plus postage.

I'm selling it because it is too small for me. High resolution pics available if needed.

quiksilver wrote:Thanks Busaste, I noticed it had pump pegs where as my other Sebring frame has no trace of them. I think its gonna take a few tins of Coke and a lot of tinfoil to get the new one cleaned up. I am hoping to have it on the road a bit sharpish so will probably go with whats on it already rather than seek original parts. and it looks like a 5 speed too, which is what I was after. Its even the same colour as my fixed conversion!

My first Viscount was a Sebring. I got it back in 1978 and it was a total revelation for me. Lightweight, impossibly beautiful to look at and so good to ride. I went EVERYWHERE on it. Sadly it got stolen in 1983 which still annoys me even now. Still, the memories and pictures (see below) live on.

I have an Aerospace Sport with brazed on pump pegs. Yet other Sports did not even come with a pump!!! It keeps us all on our toes...