Cycling UK Forum

Certainly can't argue with that - cycling provision in the Netherlands is clearly way ahead of anything in the UK.

But I wouldn't say that commuters and long-distance cyclists are ignored. In the best towns and cities (and it does vary a lot) there's increasing provision for commuter cyclists: London, of course, and the Cycling Demonstration Towns such as Aylesbury, where a user-friendly network of paths to the city centre has been set up. And Sustrans' Connect2 project, which last year won a competition for £50m of Lottery funding, is much more about fulfilling local needs than extending the NCN.

Long-distance cyclists - well, in my experience, most of the existing ones actually want to be on the road. The NCN is encouraging a new breed of recreational cyclist who likes the idea of a leisurely long distance ride, but that doesn't alter the fact that there are thousands of cyclists out there (including probably 90% of the people on this board) who, as far as I can tell, would rather be on the road than any cyclists-only alternative!

vernon wrote:These access points spoiled the flow of my ride along the Taff Trail from Brecon to Cardiff yesterday and meant that I spent more time than I would have liked in the heart of industrial wastelands.

Agreed. The Taff Trail is IME the worst place on the entire network for these barriers. Sustrans has always had a strong policy against such barriers - http://www.sustrans.org.uk/webfiles/Inf ... s/ff22.pdf , for example, is 10 years old - but local authorities aren't always convinced.

Faeton wrote:...but I still wonder if any of the Sustrans people actually cycle the paths in person. Most paths and roads may be wonderful exercises for mountain bikers, and the occasional family on a 10-mile day trip might enjoy the bends, hooks, fences, tree branches, pebbles and mud that you encounter.

Oooh, don't get me started on this one.

The NCN is not primarily meant (in my view) for CTC-type cycle tourists, who are already confident using the roads and planning routes. But it appeals to a lot of people: families, nervous cyclists, tourists who prefer to take things easier and aren't primarily fussed about speed or clocking up the miles. Probably, in fact, the majority of cyclists, but definitely not the majority of CTC members.

(Interestingly, the only time I ever see female touring cyclists is on NCN routes.)

It makes me intensely frustrated when road cyclists repeatedly blather on that "SUSTRANS IS BAD" when what they mean, really, is "the NCN is not for me". There's more than one sort of cyclist - in the same way that, though I drive a car, I have nothing in common with the petrolheads over at the Association of British Drivers.

As for whether Sustrans people cycle them - well, that's the entire point of the Ranger scheme. For example, I'm a volunteer Ranger for a lovely 12-mile stretch of Route 5 in Oxfordshire. It's my job to regularly cycle the route, check that the signage is up to scratch, look out for obstructions - and get them sorted. Of course, some sections are better 'Rangered' than others, and more volunteers are doubtless always welcome. But the idea's there.

Faeton wrote:But if you wish to cycle over 30 miles per day, be advised to have an early rise!

Of course, we only did some parts, mainly between Oxford and York. But my guess is that most NCN routes require an unbreakable bike, good muscles, and lots and lots of patience...

I'm happy to report that your guess is wrong. I've regularly done 60 miles a day on NCN holidays without getting up at the crack of dawn; I ride a standard £300 Ridgeback hybrid; and I certainly don't have particularly good muscles or patience...

The biggest two problems on the NCN, in my view, are uninspiring routes through suburbia, and unclear signage/mapping. The former one's a difficult one to sort pending large-scale redevelopment, but with the NCN incorporated into most Local Plans, it's at least there as a marker to the future. Signage is something that can be and is improved by Rangers, and a bunch of enthusiasts are trying to work on the mapping over at OpenStreetMap!

Thirdcrank wrote:Shock, horror: it's sacrilege or worse to criticise Sustrans, especially on here. Joking aside...

Heh. I could tell you're joking - my experience is that a lot of road cyclists often do little else...

Richard
(personal opinions only, of course)

You can use OpenStreetMap mapping on a Garmin - I use it extensively on my Legend HCx.

Coverage is as yet partial, but cycle routes (e.g. NCN) are highlighted and it is, of course, free. UK downloads are at http://thunderflames.org/garmin/ .

Glad you enjoyed it - and not at all surprised that you found the hill out of Machynlleth hard work!

If it's any consolation there are only two places on the NCN where I've had to get off and push, and one of them was on Lon Las Cymru - the climb up past Aberllefenni. I have no doubt that if I'd been going southbound I'd have pushed up the hill from Machynlleth. It was hard enough work northbound even though that way round you're certainly not starting at sea level!

The other is Kop Hill out of Princes Risborough, on NCN 57 - 10 miles of flat railway path followed by an incredibly steep hill. Didn't know whether to laugh or cry at that one. (Lovely route, again.)

Not all the L&L is closed to cycling - several sections form part of NCN routes, such as the Pennine Cycleway.

The reference to which sections of towpath are open to cyclists is here:

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documen ... wpaths.pdf

though I suspect it's a little out-of-date in places.

As Vernon says, towpaths have (by and large) never been designated public bridleways.

Don't confuse the permissive right to tow a boat with a horse, with the the public right to ride a horse!

Richard
(day job: editor, Waterways World magazine)

The majority is on-road, but there are quite a few railway paths and the like.

I did it on a Ridgeback hybrid. That said, I think you could get away with thinner tyres if you made judicious detours. Most of the Taff Trail section (Cardiff-Brecon) is off-road on innocuous railway paths: there are some rough Forestry Commission tracks as you get up towards the Brecon Beacons pass, but there's an easy road alternative there.

Then you're on road for most of the way through mid-Wales. The worst section (difficult even on a hybrid) was the old forest road for a mile or two in the Wye Valley: happily I believe that's now been comprehensively resurfaced.

The railway paths reappear when you get into North Wales, and again should be manageable on most tyres. The route on the north side of the Aberllefenni pass in Snowdonia was a bit rough, I vaguely recall, but if you're heading south you'd probably be pushing anyway.

For those who are MTB types, of course, there are a couple of diversions (or 'braids') with rougher terrain!

The Rochdale Canal, from Manchester to Sowerby Bridge, is a fascinating and little-used waterway, reopened throughout about five years ago. The Manchester end is built-up, certainly not always pretty, but with some real highlights like the mills of Ancoats; the summit is breathtakingly beautiful; and the descent into Yorkshire has some really interesting towns en route.

Take two days over it and explore the area a bit. The towpath is generally in good nick, and indeed much of it is to become NCN route 66, I believe.

http://www.waterscape.com/canals-and-ri ... al/cycling
http://www.sustrans.org.uk/default.asp? ... 9567475890

Hope you enjoy it. It's a cracking route.

I found four days was no problem (Cardiff-Holyhead, overnighting at Erwood [near Builth Wells], Machynlleth and Criccieth). Good luck with the climb out of Machynlleth going south! Mind you, you'll have a fantastic descent at Aberllefenni (sp?) that way round.

Trust you've got the Sustrans maps - absolutely essential. Anglesey was definitely the worst-signed bit when I did it. It's mostly (though not 100%) mapped on OpenStreetMap too (http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/osm/).

Pennine Cycleway (NCN68). Lon Las Cymru (NCN8) a close second.

Tako wrote:minkie, Thanks for your suggestion. We're currently looking into Mcr-Liv ship canal and perhaps following this to Warrington.

The Manchester Ship Canal generally doesn't have a towpath or any public access, though you might find a few stretches that do. The parallel (south bank) Bridgewater Canal may be easier, though I think the towpath is not officially open for cyclists.

This map may help you with some of the possibilities. There's also Sustrans Route 5 along the North Wales coast which is quite spectacular at times.

Absolutely - and there's a nice easy way to sketch routes from OSM maps at http://gnuher.de/cycleroute/map .

http://explore.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ might also be worth looking at.

IMO OS mapping is pretty rubbish for National Cycle Network routes, and I say that as someone who's generally a big fan of OS cartography. Sustrans maps are of course ideal, but they're only available for a small fraction of the network.

The best printed map for the whole NCN is the AA Close-Up Road Atlas. Costs about £20 and is a large-scale road atlas of the whole of Britain (a bit like the Philips Navigator), with NCN routes marked very clearly by a dotted green line. It's a bit bulky to carry on your bike, but you could always cut out the relevant pages.

Or, if you want to be all technological, you can download NCN mapping for a Garmin GPS at http://www.thunderflames.org/garmin/ . (The coverage is as at http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/osm/ .)