Cycling UK Forum

NickJP

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑23 Apr 2024, 8:30am
JohnR wrote: ↑22 Apr 2024, 8:30pm
Although the Ultegra long cage 8000 RD is only rated by Shimano for use with a 34t big cog, I know that it copes OK with an 11-40 cassette, as that's the combination that we're using on our tandem. Thre are several videos on Youtube showing this combination working. e.g.

Cool, though it looks pretty tight on a 40t and he seems very wary of running it in the big chainring. It would suggest a 36t is very doable, and safe for the derailleur. For the price of a cassette and new chain that seems like the one to try first.

Actually, with those Shimano RDs, the top jockey pulley is coaxial with the pivot point of the derailleur cage, so the top jockey pulley doesn't move up or down when you change between chainrings. If it clears the largest cog in the small chainring, it will be fine in the large, provided your chain is long enough.

NickJP

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑22 Apr 2024, 9:52pm
JohnR wrote: ↑22 Apr 2024, 8:30pm It's the OP's call as to whether adding one more gear at the bottom is enough. There's the alternative of fitting an extender link to the medium cage derailleur and an 11 - 40 or 11 - 42 cassette which adds two more gears at the bottom compared to the current 11 - 30.
Agreed. That's an additional option if the 34t isn't enough. You need the GS cage to use an extender on a double. Sunrace have a well made extender for about £10 and there are many others for less.

Although the Ultegra long cage 8000 RD is only rated by Shimano for use with a 34t big cog, I know that it copes OK with an 11-40 cassette, as that's the combination that we're using on our tandem. Thre are several videos on Youtube showing this combination working. e.g.

NickJP

It will work fine. Here's an OX801 using TA 110BCD outer ring and 74BCD inner ring, both marked as 9/10 speed, on a bike running 11s chain and cassette. No problems at all with the front shifting.

And here's an OX601 using a TA 9/10s outer ring and an old stainless steel 74BCD inner, probably dating from the days when 8-speed was top of the line - no problems there either with the 11s chain and cassette on the bike.

NickJP

Chris Juden had a photo of his 40/20 chainring setup here: viewtopic.php?t=153478. He didn't mention what the derailleur was, but from the photo it looks like a Deore XT M786 2x10 FD. I've used that same FD with 38t big chainrings, and it clears the chainstay without problem.

Another alternative is to find an old road FD. One of my wife's bikes uses 40/26 chainrings, and I fitted that with an old Campagnolo Super Record FD that must be about 50 years old, and it works perfectly well there also.

NickJP

NickJP wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 9:52pm
raymondchristopher wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 8:26pmI thought Middleburn might be an option but it was such a bad experience.
What was the problem with Middleburn? They (BETD these days) make a 94/58 spider for the Middleburn RO2 external bearing crank, and I've had one of those cranks in use for a long time with no problems, though I'm using it in a frame with a press-fit 386EVO bottom bracket rather than on a frame with a BSA threaded BB.

I believe the Q on the cranks is 153mm. Stronglight and TA make chainrings for that BCD, and there are also plenty of NOS chainrings in that BCD available on fleabay and such.

NickJP

raymondchristopher wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 8:26pmI thought Middleburn might be an option but it was such a bad experience.

What was the problem with Middleburn? They (BETD these days) make a 94/58 spider for the Middleburn RO2 external bearing crank, and . I've had one of those cranks in use for a long time with no problems, though I'm using it in a frame with a press-fit 386EVO bottom bracket rather than on a frame with a BSA threaded BB.

I believe the Q on the cranks is 153mm. Stronglight and TA make chainrings for that BCD, and there's plenty of NOS chainrings in that BCD available on fleabay and such.

NickJP

I have one bike with 10s Shimano shifters, derailleurs, and cassette that is using a Campagnolo 10s chain. No problems there. The cranks are Middleburn RS7 with their Duo chainrings, which I think date from 9s days.

With 11s, I haven't encountered any incompatibilities - I have one bike using SRAM shifters/derailleurs with Shimano chain/cassette, and another using SRAM shifters/derailleurs with ZTTO cassette and KMC chain. I remember Leonard Zinn, who used to write the tech columns in Velonews, commenting that with 11s all three manufacturers (Shimano, SRAM, Campagnolo) had made the spacing close enough that you could slot any manufacturers wheel/cassette into a bike with another manufacturers components and it still shifted fine.

With 12s, I have a bike using SRAM AXS shifters/derailleurs with Shimano chain and cassette, and that shifts fine as well.

On none of these bikes am I using a chainset that says it's intended for the particular speed of chain/cassette in use, and that appears to have no ill effect on the front shifting. My bike with otherwise 12s components is using Deore XT M737 cranks, from the mid-90s when 8s was the latest and greatest. My opinion is that warnings from manufacturers that you need to match the speed of cranks/chainrings to everything else is designed to extract more money from the credulous.

NickJP

I use the Shimano 11-32 9s cassette on a couple of 7-speed hubs with the 11t cog discarded. The 12t cog on those cassettes already has the serrations for the lockring - all you need is a lockring intended for a 12t cog, as the lockring for the 11t cog is too small a diameter to work with the 12t cog.

Here's one of the aforementioned hubs.

NickJP

Are you starting fitting of the bead opposite the valve and finishing fitting the bead at the valve? If you do it that way, you can get the already fitted section of bead into the well at the centre of the rim all the way around, which makes it easier to get the final bit of bead over the rim wall. If you do it the other way around, then the valve prevents the already-fitted section of bead at that point from going into the well, making the tyre harder to fit.

NickJP

Brucey wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 12:16pmSince then I have studiously avoided chain tool use on 9s and higher chains, except for shortening them.

I've had a Rohloff Revolver chain tool for many years. It has a tungsten carbide anvil that peens the end of the joining pin. After driving the joining pin through the chain and snapping off the excess length, you rotate that anvil in line with the pin, lock it down, and then apply considerable force to the other end of the pin to peen the end that's come through the chain so that it can't back out. Until recently, all Shimano chains used the joining pin, even 11s chains, but I haven't had anyone come back to me complaining of a failure at the joining pin after this treatment.

NickJP

531colin wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 1:52pmUnless I made it up, wasn’t there an episode years back when a particular type or make of chain used to get cracks in the sideplates radiating out from the rivet? Wrong sort of steel or hardening process?

I've seen it on a few chains in the past few years. Here's one - this is a KMC, but I've also seen the same problem with other brands of chain.

NickJP

pete75 wrote: ↑12 Sep 2016, 7:38amDepends what you mean by quality. All else being equal a well sealed hub will not spin for as long as an unsealed hub.

Agree. I have a pair of wheels with Newmen hubs that use full contact seals on the bearings, and the seals cause the wheel to stop spinning more rapidly than a wheel with semi-contact seals. However, the full contact seals also do a better job of preventing contaminants from entering the bearing.

NickJP

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Mar 2024, 4:39pmSRAM have used a different chain roller dia. in their 12s stuff, so it is completely incompatible with everything else.

Only the flat-top AXS road chains use the larger roller, their 12s MTB chains still use the standard roller size.

NickJP

I just used vernier calipers to measure the inside width of Shimano and SRAM 12s chains: 2.1mm (that's slightly less than 11/128"). When I check some unused 8s chainrings in my spare chainring collection, the tooth thickness ranges from 2.0mm to 2.2mm. I know that some of these chainrings will work with the 12s chain, as I have that exact setup running on one bike, so if you measure with a decent pair of vernier calipers you should be able to determine if your older chainrings will work with a modern narrower chain.

NickJP

mattsccm wrote: ↑17 Mar 2024, 6:54amAh but those are Fulcrum bodies /wheels not older Campag . You have fitted one of those free hubs to a Campag , not Fulcrum, hub?

Correct. Campagnolo Record hubs that I had built into wheels myself. If you scroll down the Cycle Clinic link that I previously gave, it lists the Fulcrum/Campagnolo wheels/hubs that the freehubs fit.

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