Cycling UK Forum

skyhawk wrote:Reminds me of Bart Simpson

https://gfycat.com/powerfulunfinishedde ... light-bike

I’d like to say that I’ve never had that problem but it wouldn’t be completely true.

In reality the diminished or effectively none existent output of a Dynamo at very low speeds isn't a deal breaker and users find sufficient ways around the problem. Personally I believe in the merits of having a cheap set of battery lights available as a back up system (with a bit of research it’s amazing what you can get for around a tenner) and as an option which can provide a bit of light when stationary. I’ve also used a head torch for extra light whilst riding with basic Smart brand (nice but not expensive) battery lights. As they say “where there is a will there is a way”.

@ Skyhawk “But thanks for the info”.

You’re very welcome. What I would say you, and to anyone else that cares to listen, is that we are all individuals and have differences from each other. In my experience different solutions can be and are a better fit, to an individual’s needs and abilities, than the available alternatives. ie. one solution doesn’t always suit all.

skyhawk wrote:With LiPo,NiMh etc why would people want anything else

I’m assuming that they’re types of battery and therefore we risk diverting the thread into battery lights versus Dynamo - no problem having that discussion in a separate thread though it’s perhaps already been recently held. I’ll answer your question here and hope that that’s enough for you.

To my mind Dynamos are superior to batteries for a broad variety of simple reasons:
# Batteries are chemical devices that are difficult to safely dispose of and/or recycle at the end of their life, so ecological implications. I do use batteries but prefer to avoid their use when I can.
# Batteries need to be charged which is both a faff and a matter of logistics.
# Batteries have a finite charge, when it’s gone the lights go out,
# Batteries can be heavy.
# Batteries can be expensive.
# A new Dynamo has a relatively low ecological footprint compared to a battery and low at end of life too.
# A Dynamo is an on demand device, ask it for electricity and it will give it to you (no charging) and limitlessly supply (no time limitation).
# A bottle Dynamo is light and a hub Dynamo shares its additional weight between hub (you need a hub in a wheel anyway) and Dynamo element.
# A bottle Dynamo can be had relatively cheaply and Hub Dynamos are good value too (you get a hub plus a Dynamo).
# A hub Dynamo can be used to charge up small electrical devices on say a long tour, it’s a mini power station.
# Dynamos do take some small effort to turn and do stop supplying power when the wheel stops, but nothing is perfect and that ‘defect’ is easy enough to live with.
# Dynamos do supply a maximin of around 3 Watts, so less than Batteries might, but with modern LED lights that's plenty of power.

andrew_s wrote:

mercalia wrote:As above it is important to have some battery lights as a back up what ever you do .

My experience is that dynamo lights are considerably more reliable than the backup battery lights, so don't forget to check that the backups are still working on a regular basis. If you just put them in the bag (or fit them to the bike) and leave them until they are needed, there's a pretty good chance they won't work.

I recall having some Ever Ready battery lamps, indeed they were part of the reason I shifted to Dynamos. These old Battery Lamps seemed to have loads of contacts within them that corroded, and they used to eat D cell batteries too. The Smart LED lights have been great in that they always work and don’t eat batteries. However, word of caution, if used infrequently it’s a good idea to reverse one of the batteries on the front light as otherwise it seems to very slowly self discharge.

It’s always good to have a back-up plan. Some might regard a basic bottle Dynamo as a cheap back-up to powerful and expensive battery lights.

Paulatic wrote:I believe the heading should be "front dynamo light mount"

If it were possible to enhance the heading details (as suggested) then I believe that the OP should do so - more likely to be offered help then.

No one else has answered so I’ll attempt something.

I’m struggling to visualise some details of what you have and propose, sorry, that’s a deficiency on my part. Unless you are particularly skilled and experienced I’d avoid all solutions that involve drilling and/or tapping holes in the frame/forks.

Aren’t there are brackets made to mount a Dynamo off of front cantilever brakes, and IIRC there are clamps available too to go around the front fork leg. Those, plus some form of adapter bracket, could form the basis of an alternative solution - be careful not to crush the forks and maybe put some protection around the forks first. On one bike that I had I used a thinnish plate anchored by the stem to handle bar fastener, the plate hung down from the handlebars and had another hole in it to allow the headlight to be anchored to it. That arrangement worked well but stopped me using a Barr Bag.

Good luck and I hope that you get some better answers.

PH wrote:

Carlton green wrote:

PH wrote:So far, your appraisal is based on a phone call. Might be better to have the bike back and do a few miles before drawing any conclusions.
I have a bike where I run the chain sorter than would be needed to use the big ring and sprocket, with that set of components it shifts better like that and it isn't a gear that should be used anyway.

That’s an interesting arrangement (short chain) which I’d be glad hear more about, please. Though you’re not supposed to actually use the combination I’ve always worked on having the chain long enough to fit on the biggest front ring and biggest rear cog at the same time.

Not much to add really, it's a mishmash of components with the rear derailleur beyond it's maximum capacity. With the chain measured in the conventional way, it all works but there's slack in some of the gears I use, so it clatters a bit over rough ground and changing between those gears felt sloppy. A bit shorter and I can't get two gears I don't use anyway and those I do work better.

Thank you for the details. Personally I’m of the view (like you it seems) that sometimes you just have to be pragmatic and go with what you can get to work. I believe that you might just have given me some useful info and encouragement.

IMHO there are several ‘issues’ that stop folk cycling that are related to the bikes rather than anything else.

I read the CTC magazine with interest but bike reviews and equipment comments are about stuff that costs silly money, we have lost a sense of what’s valuable to the ordinary rider or would be rider.

Modern bikes have needless complexity and replacement parts (of exactly the correct type) can be hard or impossible to find. My own bikes tend to be made of assorted bits but matching up parts isn’t always as easy as it should be, if I find it difficult then a big percentage of other people will find it impossible - not a good situation at all.

The availability of good and affordable repairs is often poor, that second hand bike might be cheap but if it isn’t working perfectly and you can’t get it repaired then it is worthless. Local bike shops might not have always done perfect repairs, but now there are so few local bike shops that bike repair is often not available.

People's ability to be multi-skilled is naturally limited (we have finite resource to learn and maintain skills) but the demands of new technology (electronic based based devices mostly) divert us away from traditional hand skills. People are loosing the ability to repair stuff. My children literally couldn’t mend a puncture or wire a plug but they’re a real wiz on some other stuff.

I don’t know how the above will change, the CTC (as was) could help by focussing on utility cycling (which is both an end in itself and a gateway to other types of cycling). If a second hand market is depressed it’s a symptom of too many people buying new goods that they were unable to use - they had aspersions but the reality didn’t match the hope.

PH wrote:So far, your appraisal is based on a phone call. Might be better to have the bike back and do a few miles before drawing any conclusions.
I have a bike where I run the chain sorter than would be needed to use the big ring and sprocket, with that set of components it shifts better like that and it isn't a gear that should be used anyway.

That’s an interesting arrangement (short chain) which I’d be glad hear more about, please. Though you’re not supposed to actually use the combination I’ve always worked on having the chain long enough to fit on the biggest front ring and biggest rear cog at the same time.

De Sisti wrote:

robc02 wrote:B&M do an all weather wire roller for their bottle dynamos:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/busch-muller-dymotec-all-weather-roller-cap-wire-brush-type/

If you use this roller make sure your tyre has the dynamo track on it, otherwise it'll chew into your tyre
(DAMHIKT). After it happened I converted to a hub dynamo (over 17 years ago).

I’ve always used a standard roller and whilst I’m sure that the brush type work they also do so in a way that I’d be concerned about. To my mind they’re more of an emergency solution to extreme weather conditions than a sustainable arrangement. Did I mention that having some battery lights available as an alternative light source is a good idea? I have some Smart Brand ones on my other bike; they didn’t cost much, have been reliable, don’t eat batteries, are compact and do a job around town. If I ride slowly (jogging/running pace) in un-lite places then they give me just enough light to get me home on a ‘pitch black’ night.

Ontherivet77 wrote:After a couple of front light failures while commuting I'm considering the dynamo option.
I've been looking at this :
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/axa ... namo-left/

and these:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelswheel ... ub-silver/

Although, I accept/presume that hub dynamos are much better than bottles are they worth 10 times the difference.
Also, what is your experience with drag and weight with both these options?
Many thanks in advance.

I would refer you, and future readers, to Mercalia’s post on this thread dated 24/01/19; to my mind it’s a rather good answer to your (the original) question.

As others have pointed out the typical relative cost of hub and bottle dynamos is much less than 10:1.
Edit. Looking through the Holland Bike website (https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicyc ... mo/?page=1) at bottle dynamos I think the relative costs are more like 5:1 - bottle dynamos can be very reasonably priced.

About 3 decades ago my sole transport was a bike. I commuted to and from work on one, all year around and in all weathers, and did long runs with my local CTC that sometimes returned in the dark. Some of that riding was on un-lite country lanes and cycle paths. My longest night time runs were around two hours and my longest commute was 45 minutes. Lighting was supplied by a halogen bulb headlight and a Union Dynamo, slipping was never an issue and I never had tyre wall damage. My point is that a bottle dynamo can be perfectly adequate for all year round commuting - at one point the bulk of riders were happy enough to use them.

In addition to the points made in Mercalia’s post I would add that good bottle Dynamo’s are relatively inexpensive, relatively easy to install and that should they fail then they are easy to replace - but that’s fairly obvious.

Rather than say bottles are better than hubs, or the opposite, I’d say that it all depends on individual circumstances. I have a decades old bottle Dynamo on one of my bikes and it's there as a good back-up light source that can be put into use if needed. These days I rarely choose to ride in the dark. The enthusiast will very probably go for a hub because it’s the best possible technical solution for all eventualities. I’m a pragmatist who requires functionality rather than perfection - the existing arrangement works well enough and I could cycle right through to dawn using it - and hence am happy enough to use a bottle Dynamo for my current and anticipated needs. However, I would look at hubs and wonder about investing in one if I started to commute with night time rides of over say 40 minutes.

bovlomov wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:The simple fact is that nothing positive or progressive is ever achieved without pressure groups going on for years. Governments only bow to pressure. Any initiative they have all on their own, whether in the area of the environment, housing, criminal justice, social and welfare justice or health, is almost always negative and retrograde.

Yes. And the corporate lobbying never ceases. Corporations don't need to gatecrash events, as they are either honoured guests or they are the hosts.

Corporations have the ear of ministers and prime ministers. They have staff seconded to the civil service, while civil servants often find employment within the corporations that they were once policing.

I think we should forgive the campaigner if s/he breaches etiquette in order to gain a minister's attention. It ain't going to happen any other way.

As far as I can see and, regardless of party, a significant percentage of politicians are to some extent being bought by lobbyists or similar influence seekers. The situation was worse in the past but it’s still not what it should be. Finding ways to make our MP’s more accountable to the electorate is the way forward, coupled with making most forms of lobbying simply illegal.

Many thanks for the posts above, what a really wonderful forum this is. I’ve certainly got a few ways forward to consider, each with their merits.

I was surprised at the price of the LED bulbs (£12) - I’ve bought LED battery front lamps for less - and replacement halogen bulbs aren’t cheap either (about £7). A purpose built new Dynamo lamp for around £18 seems relatively reasonable valve and will give the best end result, but then I have to add in the fitting hassle - Sod’s law says it will take time and it won’t be a straightforward swop. As an aside I remember why I fitted battery lamps now (they were dead easy to fit). The basic battery lights fitted to my other bike are there for and fine for occasional use in lighted areas, but they aren’t ideal for dark nights down country lanes.

I’m wondering whether to fit an expensive LED bulb to the Dynamo rear light (for enhanced visibility), leave it as is, or fit an additional battery powered rear light. Battery powered rear lights cost little, the batteries typically last a long time and the light stays on when the bike stops.

The front light I’m using at the moment has a voltage limiter in it. I’m wondering whether the alternative LED front light (AXA Pico 30) has one or not, one is needed to control the voltage to the rear (filament type) light as otherwise it will have a shortened life.

Thank you all again for your help, it’s much appreciated.

I’m lucky enough to have more than one bike, one of my bikes uses battery lights and the other one uses a tyre driven (rim) ‘Dynamo’ to power a traditional filament type bulb. Both types of light work well enough for my intended purposes, but I’m wondering about a cheap upgrade to the Dynamo powered lights.

Is it possible and practical to change the standard halogen bulb in my front light to some LED version and if so where are they available? For what it’s worth I suspect that the halogen bulb’s filament is positioned to interact with the lamps reflector, but I don’t actually know whether or not that is of overriding importance. The rear light bulb is seemingly easy enough to replace with an LED.

These look helpful but how do they work in practices? http://www.reflectalite.com/LEDpage.html#anchor78877
Example of traditional Halogen Bulb: https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/-brompton- ... ulbfh.html

roubaixtuesday wrote:

Carlton green wrote:As it happens I know someone who is a qualified and skilled Homeopath, they have been treating people for many years. [1]My friend has audited the effectiveness of the treatment / consultations that they give and encouraged patients to do the same, the results are overwhelmingly positive. Compared to main-stream medicine the costs of Homeopathic treat (ie. an individual course of treatment) is small but it’s effectiveness is better, so it is very cost effective.

Medicine is a big business enterprise, very large amounts of money are made by companies and individuals offering drugs and treatment, such people and companies also regard the NHS as a money cow to be milked. [2]In contrast Homeopathy is dirt cheap so commercially it makes sense to discredit it - draw your own conclusions.

[1] It is unsurprising, to say the least, that self assessment of efficacy is positive. The medical community addresses this with the use of double blind trials to remove bias. Why should homeopaths not be held to the same standard.

[2] Homeopaths charge for treatment without independent evidence of efficacy. Draw your own conclusions.

One can argue all day long about medical treatment and still not find the truth, but patients will tell you how their lives have been altered for the better after Homeopathic treatment.

Drug companies do provide ‘proof’ that their products work. In reality drug trials are often done in ways intended to prove a desired result rather than critically test a product, there is intended bias and some Doctors are aware of that. Trials that don’t produce a supportive result are abandoned and or hidden from scrutiny, as I said medicine is big business.
Google will give you nearly any result you want. but here’s something from the British Medical Journal: https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h6248