Cycling UK Forum

Last night i started to dissect the freewheel/wheel combination i was looking to use.

The wheel i think will have about 24mm of usebale space from the shoulder to the inside of the R drop out. allowing 4 for sprocket/chain clearance. I.e 24+4

I was hopeful on the FW as it was barely used, and 6 speed. Unfortunately it measured 30.4mm and on disection had i few issue.

1) It took 3 different ID sprocket sizes.
2) The 'splines' were more similar to the curves on a Afline sprocket, but there was 6ish of them at irregular intervals.
3) It had a small srocket to lock. then a single intermediate sprocket with its own ID.
4) then 4 larger ID sprockets.

Other than a touch off the threaded sprocket and carrier, the only thing possible would be to reduce the carrier from the spoke side and somehow rebuild the shoulder.

Given a quick google did not come up with any replacement sprockets anyway. Its game over for that plan, but i'm considering hunting down another freewheel to consider.

I have knackered freehub I may attempt to reduce to see how that goes, but its not shinamo, and i won;t be putting it on the wheel it came off, which is still in use as a8/9/10. So it will just be for sacraficial practice.

Brucey wrote:IME many of the cheaper units, if you just whack them in 'as is'' will last a year or two in hard use.

I did this in October 2018, as i couldn't find anything else in the correct width. £12 i think and was supposed to be a temporary fix.
averaged about 100 miles a week since then, took it out once when i changed frame, and once again to give said frame a respray. Still going.

Thanks for posting this and with the photos really helpful,

I have 100mm GXP awaiting fitting (you've helped me on another thread), I've been holding off as i heard the bearings like a bit of grease and not got round to reseaching....

I hope the GXP is an improvement on the other external ones, the one on my fat bike went but I don't know much about its history, and anyway it was a chainring taking out the outer shell and making the 'top hat' loose.. bearing still seem ok.

Everyday use Square taper....

Brucey wrote:one common issue is that if you are trying to run a large-ish small sprocket (such as 15,16T etc) then it may require the wheel dish to be set the wrong way a little bit; often the chain will clear the ends of the seat stays on a ~13T sprocket but not one that is larger than that, unless it is also set leftwards. Depends on the frame really.

If you want to build a cassette starting with that size sprocket, it probably won't come with an integral spacer, which means that you need to be super-accurate with the freehub body length vs cassette width, and/or use a thin spacer between the lockring and the small sprocket, to be sure that it is engaged with some splines.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that if you can't use a UG top sprocket or at least a HG sprocket with an integral spacer for the small position, you may only be able to fit the cassette to an original HG freehub body (not a HG-C one with a relief on the end) or a HG-C body (some 7s, all 8s and higher) which has been shortened.

Good tip, never thought of that. If i was maximsing range for longer rides, i'd probably pick one of your compact options and as far as possible try to get the correct HG sprockets adjacent to take advantage of the HG smoothness. For 90% of my useage (commuting) i was thinking a 'cassette' of 16-18-20. so space wouldn't be an issue. I could always go 13-15-17 and use a smaller chainring if needed.

FWIW if i ever did attempt this type of thing for a 3 or 4 sprocket set up, i'd try and get a RD on a FD friction shifter and see if it had enough range. long way from finalising that part yet. but reckon it would work, and hopefully less finicky on the daily slog..

For the other 10% of mileage, e.g 100kms days out, 8/9/10 is not a major issue, it's infrequent enough i can largely service the wheel at lesuire (or more likely drop it at the LBS..) without worrying about needing it the next morning.

pulseezar wrote:
Just the regular ones - I think these would be descibred as slick, but that's not what they're called on the website. I really like them!

Those are the one I describe them as slicks, they are nice good feel on a decent wheel. I've now moved to the Panaracer Race Evo D, but these top out at 28mm, i'm planning on a set of GK slicks from my commuter next winter.

FWIW on the wheels, IMO nothing which takes a 8,9,10, or 11 cassette will be bombproof, if i was doing it i would go to my local shop and get them to build some Shimano Hubs to some lightish rims. Then accept i would be back regularly to get them trued - unavoidable unfortunately. At least i could do any repairs on the fly. and I would be able to keep the bearings nice and smooth without worrying about when is the best time to replace them, or concerned about mashing a irreplaceable freehub.

I expect there are plenty of other hubs just as servicable, but i think the fact every bikes shop in the world will be able service the Shimano hub, just about swings it for me.

Brucey wrote: is the smallest sprockets such as 11T HG. But I'm guessing you won't want to do that anyway.

You guess right, one day i must check if my chain can actually get round such a tight bend. 16-18-20 please.

pulseezar wrote: currently with 32mm Panaracer Gravelkings (using inner tubes)

Which Gravel Kings? I've found a big difference between the Slick and the SK. I'm a big fan of Panaracer, but I find the SK too much for the road.

As others have said tyre is really important. you can have a super light wheelset, but not much point if you stick tractor tyres on them.

emleyman wrote:When my daughter was young we used a Trail Gator. They seem to be still available (http://trail-gator.com/). It's really designed for towing with the child on the bike, but you could tow an empty bike with it. You might get comments about someone having fallen off though!

When not towing the trail gator folds down and clips to your frame, so it's possible to leave it attached to your bike all the time, although it would add a fair bit of weight. From memory, i think you could remove the main bar and just leave the bracket attached to your seatpost if you wanted to remove the trailgator and just put it back on days you were towing the bike.

It claims to be for max 20" wheels, but if you're only using it to tow an empty bike I suspect you'd be able to get a bit larger on it. I imagine the restriction is related to safe towing weight for a child. The actual connection to the child bike has some adjustment (shims) to allow different bike sizes to be towed with the front wheel a small amount above the road.

I used this often to tow a empty bike, but no problem with child on or off. They are a bit finicky to get the intial set up right, it needed to be tight. tight, tight or it had a tendancy to develop a lean. But once set up, it clips to the frame and is easily detachable. I wouldn't have gone on long tours towing him on it, but as a get out of jail for when tools get downed and transporting a bike, it was and will be again excellent.

I also used a super robust bike to attach it to, and stress tested the set up without the child, i used sandbags on his bike unbalanced, off road.. before i let him on it.

Thanks Brucey, just to confirm on your modified Freehub, did you as well reduce the freehub length on the RHS? It’s probably not the sort of Mod I would be confident doing, and I don’t have a bin of old hubs I could play with or even look at, Just wondering how far you can go before you run out off threads, or comprimise the RHS bearings, I imagine it not much..

My main motivation is not maxing number of gears, but getting a dishless wheel. I’m heavy, strong legged, and heavy footed, I break and bend things.

I would be in the market for a ‘1/2 Freehub’ something that would run 4/4.5/5 sprockets on 8/9/10 tech.

I’d also be happy with a significant outlay for such a wheel on the proviso that it can be serviced fairly easily (Shimano). I’m reluctant to spend big so I can get a kryptonite rim that allows me to have 6 sprocket shaped spacers.

Another things I’ve considered is getting gears on a SS wheel. 3 speed freewheel (SS style) SJS do one. Or seeing if a 5 speed freewheel could somehow fit - hence my interest.

I guess if I want an 80’s set up I should buy and 80’s bike..

to get a larger #0 sprocket to the left of the #1 sprocket, could you not ‘bolt’ #0 to #1, with #0 not sitting on the freehub/wheel, having a carefully calculated ID so that it sits above the spokes, but overlaps with #1 to attach... I think i’ve just answered this myself, it would damage the freehub wouldn’t it. Too much load on #1. It would need to go through #2 and #3... they do this already don’t they.. hence the annoying bolted bit in the cassette which is a pig to clean.

This thing could not make 4 notches in butter.

**Edit

I remember buying this as i couldn't find my park tool one at the time. Just checked the dates on my Amazon purchase history.

18th October 2018 buys said item.
21st October 2018 buys Park tool version.

Brucey wrote:I will have to shorten the freewheel body and shorten the lockring slightly too.

How much do you think you can remove from the freewheel body, and would you create new threads, for the lockring?

Brucey wrote:It should give you a few more options.

Probably save options for another thread as to not derail this one, for now lots of things being considered, this has brought one back which i'd largely written off.

Brucey wrote:one being that hubs for screw-on freewheels tend to break axles. I know how to fix that now.

I assume by that you mean you devised a method to stop them breaking in the first place, rather than fix a axle...

Brucey wrote:Also I was thinking that most of the cheap freewheels were not worth having, and had sprockets that didn't readily interchange with other freewheel bodies; wrong on both counts!

Same, never really thought about them till a few on 'disposable' bikes ended up with me, and i got a look at a couple, even the cheap ones on 'disposiable' bikes are relatively servicable.

Brucey wrote:I like freehubs a lot of course

Put in a solid cup and cone axle, make the freehub serviceable with easy to find replacements and stamp Shimano on the side and i could start to agree...

Brucey wrote:I have used a modified(shortened) 7s freehub body on my touring bike in a 135mm oln hub

Did you patent the design? How much and how do you shortern the freehub by I assume its at the RH drop out side,

I use the inline SRAM ones mounted near the cockpit. In theory can be adjusted while in motion. Never needed to though.

They are handy as just after the handlebars tape is a useful place to have a break in the outers. For fettling with the set up... probably not ideal for optimal cable routing, but the gears change when I ask them to.

Depends on type of bike, type of rider and type of use.. can’t really advise as it’s different for everyone,

I started with a Weeride, I think from 1 till 2.5/2.75.. moved briefly to an Hamax Siesta for a few months when he was too big for the Weeride. Neither of us liked the Hamex.

Then when he started riding independently shortly after the 3rd BD. It was a Mac Ride and a trailgator.

Trailgator was a bit finicky to set up, but it did work and I’ll use it again for the next one. I only really used it to tow the bike back if he downed tools and we were a couple of Km’s from the car. He could sit on his bike, but off road it takes a lot of bumps so he would normally come up front on the Mac Ride and I’d tow the bike.

He’s nearly 5 and I think we are done. He wants to do the red track at Bedgebury ‘On his own’. So I may need to set the trailgator up on his new bike for when the tools are downed. Let’s see it’s too muddy at the moment and a touch to far for me to consider it local.

Hi Brucey, I have a few questions on the measurements on this, i'm not particularly familar with freewheels, but i'm interested in the concept, hopefully i can manage a bit better than my previous attempt at the length calculation.

The unmodified 5s as i understand, the small sprocket screws on to lock the cluster. and the outside edge of the largest sprocket (closest to the hub flange) sits in line with the first thread on the freewheel screw-on thread.

Therefore on the picture with the unmodified freewheel you have ~6mm between the outside edge of the hub flange and the shoulder of the 5s.

With the dished 6s you are dishing the new largest sprocket into the ~6mm space (in reality more, due to the spokes tapering in). Then when the modified freewheel is fully built the full length to the outside of the small sprocket is ~2.15mm less than the 5s unmodified.

This ~2.15mm can bee seen on the modified pictures as there is spare threads on the freewheel beyond the smallest sprocket.

I appreciate this is only a POC, but to get the optimal dish, are you then invisiging removing these excess threads from the freewheel to enable it to sit up close to the dropouts? I imagine it might fit without this adjustment, but if you went 8s spacing you would be pushing another 0.8mm closer and it could start to interfere?

Also did you need to amend the smallest sprocket (14t). as i'm not familar with the freewheel, i'm wondering if the the smallest sprocket has a spacer 'built in' as per common on a cassette.

It's really interesting, from my experience the dish on a wheel greater reduces the strength especially for heavy riders, my ideal set up would be undished wheel with wide hub flanges, whatever sprocket i could fit on. A 'supercompact 6/7' with an 8 or 9 chain sounds ideal. with as wide a possible range on the FD.

ike2112 wrote:
That is the most stupidly obvious and ideal answer.

Whats worse is, I have one of these foldup backpacks already!... I might just try that tomorrow - though the saddlerail carrier seems a great idea for when it comes to picking up shopping etc too.

I should also mention that i also use my bike to go a further 9 miles to work straight after, and this 'normally'** involves carrying the bike up 100 odd steps (need to count one day). **The lift is normally not working. For something to attach to my bike it needs to be absolutely essential.