Cycling UK Forum

HSJ222 C30 Fulcrum Lever Set (30 degree) Nordic, stainless circlip
from their completelist here.

Aaron specified thatonly the middle part is stainless, but I am really very happy to see this part finally available

thanks. I sent them an email.
We will see ...

Hi
I need the Sturmey Archer HSJ222 Fulcrum Lever Set for the internal gear hub rs-rf3. It's a 3 speed IGH, Rotary gear selector without protrusions outside the frame. That's why you need the HSJ221 or HSJ222 Fulcrum Lever Set.

I recently placed an order at SJS Cycles (located in the UK), and purchased a HSJ221, which is OK, but sub-optimal for my purpose.

• HSJ221 is listed as SJS Cycles part number 59474, see here
• HSJ222 is not on their website, It is exactly identical to the HJS221, except it's made of stainless steel

They don't have SA HSJ222: does anyone know where can I buy it?
Thanks

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑31 May 2024, 5:48pm Brucey this seems too good to be buried in a thread about wooden rimmed wheels. It needs a floating drum brake conversion thread.

We started talking about drum-brakes in this topic because "traditional" rim-brake for allumium rims skates overheat too much on wood.

However, no one has tried the cork-pads, among those mentioned, or the Ghisallo's ones, or those for carbon rims, both options which are still to be evaluated.

So it's not even a given that in the end I'll fit a drum brake, given that on the one hand it solves problems, on the other it introduces new ones.

In this topic I also try to keep track of external topics. If you want to dedicate a topic to drum brakes, and any modifications and improvements, I will simply leave a link here. This is useful for me when I access it from a mobile phone, since doing searches with the on-screen keyboard is very unproductive.

Brucey wrote: ↑31 May 2024, 2:30pm If the brake plate is clamped firmly and there is no play in the hub bearings, net side loads on the axle can arise, meaning the brake works less well. If the brake plate can be made to float, no significant side loads on the axle can ever be developed; the result is that the brake works better.

So, this is the problem. Interesting.
Is there the same problem with the SA 90mm drum-brake?

Before your post, I had thought about 90mm drum brakes simply because they have more surface area and cool better.
I didn't understand why there is only one kit (by Ginko, Germany) for the XL-SD version with an improved shell with 5 cylindrical inserts that increase the heat exchange surface, I didn't understand which fork SA XL-SD should be installed on since they don't even have a reaction arm.

Anyway, the point is 70mm vs 90mm?
in terms of

• dissipate heat better?
• does it modulate braking better?
• does it facilitate the assembly of the wheels? (does it make it difficult to find spokes (e.g. Sapim Race) of the right length?)
• does it tend to block the wheel when mounted on a light titanium-frame road bike?
• Are they built better and don't need modifications?

There is no perfect brake, there are always compromises.
And, from what I've read in this forum... it seems that the 90mm version sheds heat much better than the 70mm, however if installed on a light road frames... it also tends to lock up the wheel.

Which leads me to choose the 70mm version, which then has the problem described and needs to be modified.

Why doesn't SA provide a revision? Or an third company a conversion kit?

There's a lot of work to do with these SA drum-brake units, between lightening the reaction-arm, making an ad-hoc fork, and making braking more modulable.

And since road running-in is needed, this leads me to build a fork that mounts both rim-brake and drum-brake at the same time, so you always have a "safe" brake available, both during running-in and the "rim-brake" as fail-safe brake in case of drum-brake gets too hot.

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑31 May 2024, 9:39am I now understand the carbon ring lines the well of the wheel in a similar position to rim tape. It facilitates higher inner tube pressures and spoke tension according to the website.

In my opinion it is not necessary to be able to inflate an inner tube beyond the TSS specifications which are max 5 Bar.
In my opinion, the internal carbon ring serves to avoid having to continuously re-tension the spokes, to be able to tension them as is done with modern spokes, i.e. with the same tools, times and methodology

Without carbon ring... to pull the spokes several progressive interventions are necessary to give the rim time to "adapt" to the imposed curvature.

tobytronicstereophon wrote: ↑29 May 2024, 9:40pm bike had a pair of wheels with wooden rims

Also, as I wrote above, there are many type of wooden rims, as they can be made with different wood.
I would like someone to list other artisans, otherwise I only have three references of Italian hand-workers.

• Ghisallo, see here
• CBita, see here
• (Bartolomei would also be there in the list, but ... they take low profile aluminum rims, and cover them with thin wood ... so it's a bit cheating, as Mavic did in 1936 at the Tour De France.)

Basically from two(three?) italian hand-workers, of which I am only considering Ghisallo, not only because it's the one who exports abroad, 70% of 1000 unit/year, so I may have a better chance to find someone using them, but also for the reason that they are the only ones to propose a solution with a carbon ring glued inside the rims. It's called "Ultimate rims", and it solves a couple of (rather annoying) problems of old traditional wooden rims

Then in woodem rim technology... there are those for glued tubulars, and the hockless ones, and of the latter the TSS ones for reinforced rim with glued carbon internal ring.

... when someone writes "a pair of wheels with wooden rims", reporting a feedback or something.
Good, but .... which one? and made by whom?

tobytronicstereophon wrote: ↑29 May 2024, 9:40pm ... was once a serious cyclist ... with more money than...
[...]
So, if they make you happy to own a set, then I would buy them. Life is generally stressful and unkind for many at the moment...
So, Buy Them!

Why this comment?
As if I were describing cycling as an elite phenomenon done only to show off wealth ...

I don't think this is the topic of the topic!
But rather whether wooden rims make pedaling more comfortable, and possible problems, improvements to be able to use them!

Frankly speaking, there are people who spend more than 3000 euros for a pair of carbon wheels, while I'm discussing a pair of wheels with wooden rims which, finished and assembled, don't even exceed 700 euros!

I didn't think they existed, but they do!
Forks designed for drum-brake! (and even roller brakes) wheels!

See here, HollandBikeShop (Netherland)!

Brand: Unbranded
Group: Fork
Size: 28" / 1"
Category: 1502433
Specifications: Drum Head Tube : 25 CM Thread : 14 CM
Color: Gray
Category: Fork
Color Specific: Gray
Brand: Unbranded
Type: Uni
Primary Base Color: Gray

HBS Fork
Fork with thread
Fork diameter 1 Inch = 25.6mm
Fork suitable for stem 22.2 mm
Fork material: coated steel
Fork suitable for 28 inch wheels
Fork suitable for drum brake / roller brakes wheels

Specifications:
- Wheel size: 28"
- Type of bike: Trekking
- Color: Gray
- Material: Steel
- Brake type: Drum brakes
- Weight: 960 grams
- Distance dropouts: 10 cm
- Without dynamo hook
- Suitable for axis size: 9 mm

Steerer tube:
- Inch size: 1 "(25.4 mm)
- Steerer length: 250 mm
- Threaded
- Thread Length: 140 mm

(notice how annoying it is, no one ever tells you how the hell it's threaded!
ISO? Campagnolo BC1? Campagnolo/ITA? Other? 1"24TPI?!? What!?!?
Anyway, it's interesting. At least to copy the idea and make a homemade fork)

speaking about bearings

• 6001-ZZ-S , stainless , 03.75 Euro , see here ;
• 6001-ZZ-C3 , NTN Japan , ??.?? Euro , see here ;
• 61805-2RS , sealed , 10.00 Euro , see here ;
• 6001-KER-LL-ZRO2-PEEK , ceramic balls , 34.00 Euro , see here ;
• 6902-KER-LL-ZRO2-PEEK , ceramic balls , 41.00 Euro , see here ;

(not sure if they are 100% compatible with SA drum brakes like { XL-FD, XL-FDD, X-FD, X-FDD } )

The floating brake plate conversion is described in the 'supercommuter' thread

Note for me, when accessing via smarphone:
It's this topic.

To tell the truth... I spent ~90 euros for a 1992 Campagnolo Record front hub (NOS, I won an auction), with dust caps, cones and balls, the wheel rolls like silk and... if it weren't for the brakes it's the type of hub I would like have on the front wheel with the rim of wood.

So I think I will invest +230 euro and buy a third wooden rim+spokes+special-nipples-and-special-washers-kit, three rims in total

• rim#1: to be spokes-assembled on a Campagnolo Record/8Speed rear hub (the rear wheel will be without any brake)
• rim#2: to be spokes-assembled on a Campagnolo Record front hub (this fron wheel will be RIM-brake calipher with cork pads, several tests, to understand which is best (1))
• rim#3: to be spokes-assembled on Sturmey Archer Drum-Brake front hub

I may even conder a further 1"ISO threaded fork made of NivaCrMo chromed steel (650g!!!)

• fork#1, for rim brake, Campagnolo Chorus Caliper (already built, it's my daily fork)
• fork#2, for SA drum-brake. Possible to be built. In case, it will come with the reaction arm clip "brazed" (2) onto one of the fork blade, which will be also reinforced and tested in laboratory; so a "fork" designed specifically for the drum brake

(1) Cork pads, as example, see this pair kit by CBIta.
(2) brazing-arm-clip, as example, see here

CJR18 wrote: ↑28 May 2024, 1:07pm Another fan of drum brakes

I'm actually not a "fan" of drum brakes

I don't have to use them in rainy, humid or snowy environments.
Today it's raining cats and dogs, anyway, it's just a bad example; here(2) the climate is rather dry at constant intervals.
Anyway, the reason I'm also considering drum brakes is that I'd like to build a pair of wheels with Ghisallo rims(1), and I'm not too sure about cork pads.

There are various types of cork, various commercial offers, I just discovered that cork pads exist for carbon rims, and I might also consider that type of pads since the objective is the same:

• do not let them melt due to the high temperature caused by pad rubbing onto rim
• do not excessively damage the braking surfaces of the front wodden rim.

(1) Ghisallo Ultimate/Spring (TSS) with a with a carbon ring glued inside the rim
(2) Italy, 20Km near Switzerland

Found this topic here on this forum, which discusses water cooling, or rather water thrown on the hot brake to take away the dirt generated by the brake itself, and this topic about drum brakes performance.

Very interesting, in case you want to replace the front rim-brakes with a drum-brake, for the wooden rim project

Brucey wrote: ↑27 May 2024, 2:04pm

• cut angled slots into the brake linings to improve dust clearance.
• make the brake plate 'float', because it'll work much better that way.
• change the heavy steel reaction arm for a lighter Al one.

Interesting mods.
Are there any descriptions or topics describing them?
And how to replace the steel reaction arm?

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑26 May 2024, 2:20pm Holland bike shop stock a range of front drum brake hubs including a dynamo version. I'm assuming your front fork is 100mm o.l.d.

Yes, the fork is OLN=100mm
But, the question is: only Sturmey Archer?
Is there any other brand with drum brake front hubs?
I think, in any case, I will buy one of their SA 90mm drum brake.
There's also an air-cooled mod for that SA 90mm model, and a water cooled mod.