Cycling UK Forum

freiston wrote: ↑26 Sep 2024, 10:37am I don't know - just wondering - if the new shifter is 6 speed and the cassette is 8 speed, will the shifter have enough total cable pull to reach all 8 sprockets? By my rough reckoning, you'll need about 5 or 6 mm more pull from 6 to 8 sprockets. I know that the pull ratio of Shimano 6, 7, 8 and 9 speed systems is pretty much the same and that, indexing-wise, shifters and rear mechs/cassettes are compatible.

Edit: I just read a description here that says they'll work up to 9 speed in friction mode

I had the same query and came across that same link as you have pointed to. For the record those are 7 speed not 6 however I asked the seller, who is a long standing member of the other forum so I presume very experienced, and they confirmed that they will be fine with 9 speed in friction mode.

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑25 Sep 2024, 10:39pm You do know the SL- MT60 is likely indexed for 6 speed? There may be a 7 speed version. Do you might only be able to use it in friction mode, which is no great hardship once you get the feel and ear for the gear changes. Fits with the retro theme too.

Yes that is the only reason I bought it!

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑25 Sep 2024, 4:41pm I wounder if some of the clattering is because there's not enough clearance between the guide pulley and the larger sprocket teeth. Turning the b screw in might help.

That has been discussed at length earlier in the thread. To summarise I tried fully with stock one, didn't remove all of the clattering but on less gears, I added a longer one, right way. Again, some improvment but more to be done. Reversed it which provided the best result but could not get any more progress there and was seriouly difficult to get on and off due to the tension involved to prize it round, required 3 hands or more.

Have just ordered a hanger extender which should resolutely solve that issue.

Well there was more than one clattering issue. One for my impromptu hanger alternation mishap which I have been able to revert, The other for close jockey wheel to cassette which hanger is en route for.

Also just managed to grab a pair of mt60 thumb shifters for only £18 for the indexing issues and will be happy to go back to friction!

Was also gifted some bar ends so things are coming along swimmingly.

531colin wrote: ↑25 Sep 2024, 4:27pm Among all those photos, I see a big bit of jockey cage poking out in front of the top jockey wheel.
Are you sure it’s supposed to be like that?
It looks mid-assembled to me, I think you should compare it to photos of that mech. in Shimano tech docs.

Which picture are you referring to as I don't see anything amiss in those images?

I've only gone and fixed the hanger haven't I!?

Tool only took about 10-15 minutes to create from bits in the garage.

Had a box of nuts/bolts. Not much metal around but plenty of wood off cuts. Now of course wood is more likely to get indented under force, and in turn lose accuracy for further readings, if you try and bend the hanger with it but I only used it as a guide to take the readings with a measurer.

Didn't have a bolt that was just the right fit for hanger thread so I got a close one and found two nuts, one for either side to hold it fast and a third to hold the wood fast. Took a couple of pictures but not uploaded.

I drilled a hole in the wood for the bolt and used the one nut to fasten that then checked with a set square and happily it was bang on first try even though I drilled the hole manually and had expected perhaps some trial and error.

Bit of a fiddle to get it on and off the hanger considering it is very close to the cassette but managed by taking the wheel on and off in between readings. I could have eased this by switching the wheel around but had already started measuring when I thought of that so just carried on.

So...as to how it worked. Fantastically if I do say so myself!

Here are the readings, using the tube barrel hole on the wheel each time as advised in one of the videos:

before:
top: 7.2cm
bottom: 11.7cm
after:
top: 9.4cm
bottom: 10cm

I did it slow and steady, put it on, measure, do an adjustment with the mole grips, measure again. After the first couple of times I got a feel for how much I could expect it to alter it. From the first reading I did a calculation that I was aiming for 9.45cm top and bottom (7.2+11.7=18.9/2=9.45). Due to the slight offset from center of the hanger I thought that could factor into things and I thought the after readings to be a pretty good result!

So the moment of truth...I put the wheel back on and to my delight the issues with the clattering are gone. It looks to be much straighter now both on the smallest and the biggest cogs. However, the indexing issues appear little changed. I am thus glad to rule this out and feel confident it is just a case of compatibility.

I could try a hanger extender, which I am going to buy anyway I think just for the other clearance issues, but I don't expect that to be the indexing fault given that if that were so the smaller cogs would index fine.

Thanks to those helpful posts which aided me in the remedy for that larger (self imposed) issue! Regardless it was a very fun and satisfying exercise and I am sure a valuable skill for future!

I am regretful about being hasty to bend the hanger now! I didn't have the patience to wait and see if it was anything else.

Here we go, an unload of images to give you all a better idea of what I am working with:

Brucey wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 7:15pm actually there is no real reason a front wheel cannot be used, provided it can be mounted properly. This is just a bit easier to do with a rear wheel, whereas with a front wheel, you will probably have to use some spacers/adaptors.

In this video he says it could damage the thread or something, from what I recall last night. Anyway I was thinking as per his other video could I not make one out of wood instead of metal? I know wood would not be as rigid for doing the adjustments so may just indent the wood but could be used with the ruler to get the measurements and then do those with vice grips. I have lots of spare bits of wood but not bits of metal that I can think of ready to hand. Anyway, now I get the gist of what is involved, it seems a simple enough contraption to cobble together but the wheel would be the first thing to try.

I thought I could just swap the skewers from front to back if the back one will fit through the front to temporarily leave it in place while I did the adjustments.

Cyclothesist wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 7:45pm If only someone had bought that Polygon a few weeks ago. They could have been out enjoying the Indian summer in the countryside. It would have saved so much angst. For so many.

I'll get my coat

You think I have just been toiling away in the garage not riding my bike?

I have been out all the time in between while working on the improvements. Also I don't know how many times I have to keep saying it the tinkering is enjoyable in itself.

531colin wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 5:41pm My derailleur hanger tool is a bit of angle iron, a bit like that video.
You can use an old fashioned Q/R wheel, I think the rear axle is the correct thread

Well that scuppers that idea. I just see on the video you have to use the back wheel not front. The back wheel is in use and the one I have to align against!

Brucey wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 4:40pm easy now, if the hanger is part of the frame you only get a few goes at straightening it before the welding torch has to come out....

I was informed on retro bike that it is not so much of a problem with steel frames as they are more tolerant of bending, within reason of course, and that the move to make them a separate piece was only because they began using more brittle materials such as aluminium and carbon fiber.

Pendodave wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 5:49pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 4:06pm Might try the hanger soon as the b-screw doesn't seem to do much anyway and it is extremely awkward to do the reverse having to prize the spring back manually while angling the derailleur up to screw in.

I'm (slightly) surprised by this. I have recently tweaked my b-screw to accommodate a slightly illegal cassette, and a few twists moved the top jockey wheel a few mm away from the big cog to facilitate a smooth shift.

Well it did do that, just that 2mm must not be enough in my case!

531colin wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 5:41pm My derailleur hanger tool is a bit of angle iron, a bit like that video.
You can use an old fashioned Q/R wheel, I think the rear axle is the correct thread

That is handy because this bike has them!

Brucey wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 4:40pm easy now, if the hanger is part of the frame you only get a few goes at straightening it before the welding torch has to come out....

Indeed. What I was thinking. I was a bit gung ho with my first try!

roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑24 Sep 2024, 4:16pm Chances of sitting a bent hanger by eye are zero.

Get a new one or a tool to sort.

https://www.parktool.com/en-int/blog/re ... -alignment

I can't get a new one, it is part of the frame.