Cycling UK Forum

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 2:45pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 1:49pm.... Does this mean I could use any cassette by just taking out one cog of the cassette?

more or less, yes.

8s,9s,10s,11s shimano MTB cassettes all fit to the same width freehub body originally designed for 8s. 7s bodies are a touch shorter hence n-1 cassettes will fit. A 7s/135mm wheel has quite a lot less dish to it which makes it a lot stronger than an 8s/135mm wheel; I prefer the stronger wheel to the extra gear, given the choice. In fact I am of a view that if you think you need an 11t sprocket, there is very probably something wrong with you or your gearing....

Looking at prices it seems 8 speeds can be had quite reasonably and are available up to 46, highest I have seen so far.

So I could get an 8 and -1 back to 7 and enjoy a cool 13.5 (24/46x26) GI!!!!

Nearholmer wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 3:40pm

new rigid frames, being niche, seem to be £1000+.

I mentioned Planet X before, and will now mentioned their (strangely named) on-one Bootzipper, a rigid, all-steel, 29er, which comes in well under £1k as a complete new bike. I know someone who has one as a bike packer, and her only complaint is that the paint finish isn’t very hard-wearing, other than that she rates it very highly.

Yes I remember and opened the front page, but got sidetracked (again) before looking.

Looked again, they are all thousands!!! Unless there are some budget ones hidden somewhere.

It seems most on this forum think nothing of dropping a few grand on a bike. I am not that way inclined.

Also I'm not saying I want to go 11 speed right away. I would aim for 7 with maybe custom cassette which would be more available than 7 only, but the option is there to upgrade in the future if I wanted.

rareposter wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 2:52pm At this point, you've got to ask yourself why you're looking at buying an early-90's Clockwork with a 3x7 drivetrain then taking it off to fit some more gears when you could just buy a new bike which already has the required gearing...?

Well a 100 quid old bike with a good rigid frame is still cheaper than a 500 quid new bike and leaves a lot of room for me to play with in terms of upgrading plus the rigid frame is preferable and new rigid frames, being niche, seem to be £1000+.

Ignoring the suggestions of customising cassettes for the moment, because that really is going off into a whole new rabbit hole, if you want a 10sp cassette for example, you'll need a 10sp hub which means a whole new rear wheel (not the easiest to get 135mm QR MTB hubs now, also not easy to get decent 26" rim brake rims) and a new shifter and rear mech.

Oh I thought Brucey was saying you don't need a new hub either. So I would need a new hub as well? I presumed that LX hub would be compatible since Brucey didn't mention anything to the contrary in the current discussion of 'fettling'.

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 2:45pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 1:49pm.... Does this mean I could use any cassette by just taking out one cog of the cassette?

more or less, yes.

8s,9s,10s,11s shimano MTB cassettes all fit to the same width freehub body originally designed for 8s. 7s bodies are a touch shorter hence n-1 cassettes will fit. A 7s/135mm wheel has quite a lot less dish to it which makes it a lot stronger than an 8s/135mm wheel; I prefer the stronger wheel to the extra gear, given the choice. In fact I am of a view that if you think you need an 11t sprocket, there is very probably something wrong with you or your gearing....

Oh that does open up my options then!

Yes I don't even use my 14t, smallest, on the British Eagle.

Say I didn't want to spend more money on the extra shifter and stuff right away, if at all, could I buy an 11 speed cassette and use the 7 shifter and just have access to the top x sprockets/just take off the ones at the bottom I don't want to make it 7?

For the bigger dinner plates would they require the new RD though, which from the looks of it would be one of the most pricy parts.

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 10:02am A 7s freehub body will accept a variety of n-1 cassettes, for example 8/9, 9/10, or 10/11, but you will also need a new RD + shifter + chain in many cases. The usual way of doing a n-1 cassette is to remove the smallest cog, which may require a different lockring (although I have used a spacer made from old spoke here).

Yes I read it. Does this mean I could use any cassette by just taking out one cog of the cassette?

How come it is not more than one on ones that are over 8 speed. Like 9-2 = 7, 10-3 = 7, 11-4 = 7. How come only -1 each time? I would have thought each +1 makes it fatter and thus need more cogs taking off?

Also, as the frame has been confirmed to be 135mm why does anything need taking off? Why won't they just fit on without modification since that is the standard dropout spacing even for modern bikes now isn't it?

rareposter wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 10:57am For someone without the knowledge and experience who just wants something with low gears, you've gone off down entirely the wrong road.

I don't have no knowledge though. I have a fair bit of those old bikes because that is what I used and maintained in the 90s - though my knowledge is rusty. It's the new ones I haven't got a clue about.

So if it is 135mm can I fit any of the modern 9/10/11/12 speed cassette? Could I just take of x amount of cogs to reach 7 speed then wouldn't have to get all new RD shifter and such?

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 10:02am

biker38109 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 8:01pm....Oh, were they around in the 90s? I thought everything was freewheel back then.

From the ad description: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/ear ... st-3624248

that is a cassette hub. Cassette hubs are an old idea, but as we know them today were made by shimano, starting in the 1970s, and became popular in the 1980s. A 7s cassette is a fairly rare bird these days, but the good news is that you probably don't need to buy one.

There are two main options here
1) retain 7s shifting
2) fit something more modern.

Could I even fit bigger ones that are more easy to get hole of today then or are they yet another different form factor? If so what do you think is the max speed it would be able to take given that it is only 130mm dropouts rather than 135? From what I read 130 to 135 is not a big problem on steel frames but what about without any stretching? With stretching to 135 would the wheel misalignment issues be something to consider or not a problem?

Would this 9 speed fit for example: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cassettes/m ... tte-1146t/

A 7s freehub body will accept a variety of n-1 cassettes, for example 8/9, 9/10, or 10/11, but you will also need a new RD + shifter + chain in many cases. The usual way of doing a n-1 cassette is to remove the smallest cog, which may require a different lockring (although I have used a spacer made from old spoke here).

What is RD?

FWIW the clockwork was a nice bike BITD and it should still ride well now, given suitable fettling.

That what was I had hoped.

rareposter wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 8:32pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 8:01pm If the latter which cassettes available now would work with it and up to what speed?

The only 7sp cassettes available now are up to 30 or 32.

So that setup is cassette and not freewheel?

I have found one here: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cassettes/s ... ble-1134t/

rareposter wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 8:32pm
The best climbing MTBs I ever had were full suspension.

Maybe. I am sure with low enough gears it wouldn't matter how much you bobbed into each pedal stroke. Still, a rigid frame will be more effective with less maintenance and cheaper due to less engineering as I could only expect low quality suspension for the price I want to pay. That is basic economics and physics isn't it?

rareposter wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 8:32pm That Clockwork was a by the numbers one from an assembly line. But 30 years ago.

Interesting, but it is a highly regarded make by the looks of it, I read even used by professionals in races. Not a BSO. I am not expecting a limited edition hand crafted or whatever.

Brucey wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 7:57pm LX is a type of shimano hub. An LX rear hub would normally be a cassette hub.

Oh, were they around in the 90s? I thought everything was freewheel back then.

From the ad description: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/ear ... st-3624248

What does it look like it is then? Freewheel or cassette? If the latter which cassettes available now would work with it and up to what speed? I only know freewheels and the new form factors just confuse me and looking it up hasn't got me much further either. Just more confusion!

Oh I think I was misunderstand what LX hub meant. Looks like it has nothing to do with the free hub technology and that bike would be the freewheel type that I am used to?

If so I just have to get a 34 (only about £18) to put on back and that will take my to a respectable 18" BOG/granny to rival the dinner plate crowd! Seems a simple way to achieve my goal. £120 bike + £20 freewheel and presto!

rareposter wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 6:51pm ...

I have refined it down that I want a hill climber specialisation bike.

As such that is why I moved away from new bikes and back to 90s frames due to no suspension since that is a waste of tech/money for something that is not suited to the goal.

My current thinking is one of these 2nd handers, then get the 22 inner 3x crankset: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/s ... 22t-170mm/

So current goal is no sus, still extreme low gear spec! Well the seller of the orange bike has told me that the chainring is already a 24 so might as well hold off on that crankset but would like the biggest cassette on the back I could get for that LX hub type. So what could it take max with 130mm dropout?

Just over a hundred quid (for the Orange Clockwork) for a whole bike to build off of seems a good starting point?

I will reiterate that part of the fun is finding a bike to fit my specific needs not just a cookie cutter by the numbers one from the assembly line.

Nearholmer wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 6:40pm Size?

I thought you mentioned that you are 5’10”, or did I imagine that?

I think you might need bigger than 18” frame.

Yes that is my size.

I thought you can use anything above 14" frame and just raise the seatpost to your liking? That is only my memory from the 90s so maybe I have misremembered!

So what is the maximum speed that will fit in a 130mm frame? I would like to have the open ended option to fit 9/10/11 speed if possible or is it asking too much?

Just seen a chart that states 18" is just within my height bracket:

5’6″ – 5′ 10″ 168cm – 178cm 17″ – 18″ Medium
5’10” – 6’1″ 178cm – 185cm 19″ – 20″ Large

rareposter wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 6:19pm

biker38109 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 1:49pm Well I was thinking use the 2.1 inch (that is the inner tube not sure tyres but close to that?) for the back and 1.5 inch road wheel for the front. Would they fit on such a frame?

No chance. They won't even fit in the frame.

What you're looking at in that retrobike link are old skool road frames - caliper brakes, skinny tyres on 700c wheels, drop handlebars.

They're not bad frames at all but they are totally unsuitable for your purposes.

Although since your purposes seem to change with every other post, who knows...

biker38109 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 10:54am Plus I can salvage most of the parts from the British Eagle and transfer across as quite a lot of that is new (at the time) bought parts to replace on the Eagle.

Everything about that British Eagle needs throwing in the skip.

How about this one then? Just over a tonne cash money:

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/ear ... 18.483846/

Says LX and hub (rather than old style freewheel), does that mean I can use more modern cassettes? Up to what speed?

nirakaro wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 12:00pm They look like nice frames, but kinda skinny. Might be wise to think about what width of tyres you’ll want to fit, if you plan to go off road.

Well I was thinking use the 2.1 inch (that is the inner tube not sure tyres but close to that?) for the back and 1.5 inch road wheel for the front. Would they fit on such a frame?