Cycling UK Forum

meic

You are somehow saying that me and all other people who are not Leave campaigners are like that guy on that Ryan Air flight.
So not content with alluding to all Leavers being racists in order to shut them up, it now extends to fellow Remain voters who dont tow the most extremist lines.

meic

Are you a Leave Campaigner?

meic

I am not a Leave campaigner.

meic

I used to do that but they stopped running the trains that I needed to get to my destination in the morning. The service then only starting after I needed to be there.

meic

Remain told us we would never see any benefits.

Strangely enough Leave chose to emphasise the positive aspects of leaving, emphasising the negative aspects was the job of Remain.

meic

Psamathe wrote:
meic wrote:You are "forgetting" that there was a rather long free and open public debate before the referendum where the swamp and the drop was quite vividly described to the electorate. They still chose to go that way.

Leave campaigns were promising us untold benefits in our new nirvana. World flocking to our doors begging us for free trade deals whilst the EU would be meeting our every wish (because "they need us more than we need them"). We'd have untold wealth after not sending all that hypothetical money to the EU, no more immigration, etc.

Had they told us about the deal it looks like we'll be offered, that we have to accept that deal or an even worse disaster, and that we'd have to wait 50 years
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2018/jul/24/two-50-or-100-years-when-do-leavers-think-brexit-will-pay-off wrote:Jacob Rees-Mogg says the benefits of leaving the EU may not be felt for 50 years – and he’s not the only Eurosceptic asking the people of Britain to wait patiently
. That the £350m a week never actually existed (except in Leave campaigners wet dreams). etc. Those various truths would possibly have given a different outcome. So your 6 figure price delivering a beaten-up 2nd hand mini (if you wait 50 years after paying the bill) might not be the deal you were promised and thus maybe time you get the chance to confirm that you really want the very different reality.

Ian

Same as my previous post, there were two sides presenting arguments before the referendum, not just one. We had access to both sides and made our choices.

meic

If it went "Leave" then that settles it for the rest of my lifetime.

That promise was made last time, not by you but by the people who arranged the referendum.
Not unreasonable to expect them to honour that promise.

meic

roubaixtuesday wrote:
meic wrote:That's democracy for you.

If the people cant exercise their own personal judgement, then it isnt democracy.

If it was democratic for people to campaign for a referendum in 2016, why is it undemocratic for other people to campaign for a referendum now?

If people can't exercise their right to free speech for whatever they wish for, then it isn't democracy.

Nobody is arguing with you there. Nobody is saying you cant or shouldnt campaign for a rerun, just pointing out that that is what you are doing.

meic

Didnt you pay any attention to the remain campaign?
Leave didnt have a monopoly on the referendum campaigning and they had no say at all in the official government guidance.

meic

That's democracy for you.

If the people cant exercise their own personal judgement, then it isnt democracy.

meic

You are "forgetting" that there was a rather long free and open public debate before the referendum where the swamp and the drop was quite vividly described to the electorate. They still chose to go that way.

meic

So why are you repeatedly calling it a re-run.

Because it is.
No need for capitals, I can read lower case.
Just a look at all the other sentences in a post supporting this re-run shows quite clearly what the motivation is behind the calls for a second vote, to overturn the original decision.

meic

You just remove the outer plates, which is no more difficult (in fact easier as nothing to rejoin after wards) than removing a whole link of inner and outer plates. Then your chain remains the same length.

meic

Use of capitals doesnt make your assertion any more valid.

meic

I don't follow the logic behind the constant claim of "are we going to keep rerunning it until we get the 'right' answer?".

Because in the real world opinion ebbs and flows. The referendum was claiming to be "fair", to rerun it in the hope that the opinion would have shifted more in line with what the establishment wants anyway until they get their way, is clearly not fair.
I think that the highly partisan advocates on each side (who dominate the twitter sphere) dont really care about having a fair vote, just winning. I hope that they are outnumbered by the vast majority who are acting in good faith and accept that they had a referendum and the decision was made by it, as promised.

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