Cycling UK Forum

I hope that Peter's contact details are made clear in Cycle, so that folk do know how to get ballot papers if they have a problem.
Keith.

Interesting.... thanks.

Many interesting points have come up in this thread. I agree with Si, that a shop like Spa (I was trying to avoid reference to any individual shops) probably wouldn't want to be the partner in running a CTC Shop. What's in it for them? Franchise arrangements like the CTC Shop often only appeal to 'big' players (Wiggle doesn't just sell bikes). The mythical discount, in which the initial CTC store price is higher than the same company advertise elsewhere (no accusations being made here!) quickly becomes obvious to members and undermines the credibility of the Shop. Re Si's last comment, maybe if you don't have any customer service, you can't go wrong? Lots of good points, Si, thanks.
I've also emailed Arthur Spurr as suggested.

I knew when I raised this topic that there were at least two sides to the arguement and that it was well trodden ground. Obviously there is no single solution that meets everyone's needs but it leaves me wondering whether, as one contributor says, the CTC Shop has perhaps run its course, at least in terms of a sell-everything shop?

Keith

Thirdcrank said

Last I heard, IIRC the CTC was collating a list of those local bike shops offering a discount to CTC members.

One of my friends recently went to a LBS and, when he came to pay, asked if the shop gave discount to CTC members. The answer was 'no' but if he was a member of any of several (named) other local cycling clubs (which he wasn't), he could have 10% discount. I got the impression that his reluctance to give CTC members any similar discount was because of the different perceived attitude of CTC at national level (possibly not helped by a recent approach from CTC NO to see if he'd like to give us a discount!) compared with the local clubs that he was happy to support. My friend, being the good negotiator that he is, got 10% anyway, on the basis that he was a 'loyal customer'! So, it seems, we are not as a club endearing ourselves to our LBSs. Perhaps we need to give them some (free?) publicity (via the web site? ) in exchange for discount, and hopefully increased sales to match the discount.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Any shop owners lurking out there with an opinion?

NUKe said

You could try riding

The last time I went shopping there I spent well over £300 and couldn't get it all in my panniers! Usually, though, I do cycle there.
There was no way I'd have made those purchases from CTC/Wiggle!

Thanks, thirdcrank. Profit before principals, then.

I'll still drive the 28 miles to Diss to go to a proper bike shop!

Hamster makes two good points

there was vociferous moaning about the prices with previous partners

Perhaps it isn't just accountants who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
I'm not averse to buying from the cheapest supplier in some situations, but I prefer to support a proper shop.

there is no single retailer right for everyone

In this case it's only right for those who have internet access.

Of couse, those without internet access won't be contributing to a debate on the Forum.

Post-script to the discussion back in June....
I did buy a Vitesse 7 (with SRAM deraillieur) which I got for a modest £200 via eBay, with only 10 weeks' use on it.
I'm impressed with it. The build quality is good, the folding is ok for occasional use and the ride is pretty good. I've done about 300 miles on it since mid July and it's opened new possibilities of jumping on any train or quickly popping a bike in the car boot. My only slight gripe is that the chain runs rather roughly on the smallest two sprockets and I can't find out why. Overall I have found the bike quite nippy (both for speed and taking a chunk out of my finger when folding it!) and capable of climbing reasonable hills. Longest ride to date was 41 miles from Cromer to Great Yarmouth. It isn't going to get a lot of use, so the cost of a Brompton wasn't really justified, but at the price I paid, this is an excellent bike.

Keith

"There are no facilities for customer personal collections at this address. Please do not attempt to collect an order as you will be turned away which may cause offence. There is no shop front or customer service facility available at our warehouse. "
The above is not exactly the customer-friendly face of a good bike shop, and yet this is from the CTC SHOP web pages!
For a long time, it has amazed me that the CTC has chosen as it's shop provider a company that (a) has no shop at all (b) won't publish a phone number (c) will only accept orders on-line, and neither by phone or post - so any CTC member who does not have a PC / internet access is immediately disadvantaged. As a touring cyclist, I often need some help from the shop to ensure I buy the correct item, so I go to a PROPER shop, or (more often) I phone them up and place my order. It may not be a cheap way to get parts but if the specialist shop isn't there when I next need advice, or quality wheel building, or what have you, then I am the loser.
I have no argument with buying on line. Some of the best bike shops around have excellent web sites and, if I can find what I want, I will place orders via their web site, but I won't buy from the CTC "shop" so long as it is nothing more than an Internet warehouse. It simply isn't fair that the CTC should be supporting this company to the detriment of all our decent bike shops.

Anyone agree with me, or am I turning into a Curmudgeon?

I almost feel a motion for the next AGM coming on.....

Well, it's important that a balanced view is put to the membership when we are all invited to vote on this. As secretary of a Member Group, I took the opportunity to explain (as best I could) the events since the AGM in our group's latest magazine. I'm not trying to foist my opinion on anyone, but I do think people in our group are entitled to understand what is going on. I've talked to many of our active members, or brought up the subject at 11s, and I get the impression that quite a lot of people are uneasy about the direction the CTC is going (i.e. apparently away from looking after touring cyclists) but most (like me) are still pretty confused as to whether unification of the 'club' and the 'charity' is the right course of action. However, I also get the feeling that this isn't such a big issue in many peoples' minds so getting them to vote means making sure that they know why they need to vote - whatever your point of view.
Initially I was happy to accept that those advocating the merger knew what they were talking about and it seemed (superficially) to be a good idea but the 'save the CTC' campaign sowed sufficient doubt in my mind to make me lodge a proxy vote (not with the chairman) against the motions. That doesn't mean I'm implacably opposed to the merger, just that I have sufficient doubt to want to see some reasoned discussion and to avoid us taking a course of action that *could* prove to be detrimental and *would* prove to be much more difficult to unravel if the fears raised by the anti-merger lobby prove to be correct.
Some persuasive arguments were put forward on the SaveTheCTC web site, and I hope these can now be put, succinctly, to the whole membership. The quality of some of the arguments actually presented in Cycle before the AGM was not as good as that on the web site, and I was actually a bit surprised that the 'no' lobby won the day. From the figures that were reported after the AGM I get the impression that only about 4,000 members voted at all on this issue (of which around 1,800 voted 'no'), which might be a high figure for an AGM but it's tiny as a proportion of the entire membership and if all 62,000 (approx) members are asked to vote, it's anybody's guess what the outcome will be!
Since (in our own case) only about 15% of the members living in our patch are 'active' with the local group, it begs the question what particular aspect of the CTC attracts individuals to be members. The arguments for and against the merger need to be presented in a way that recognises the diverse reasons for being a member, since 'the club' aspect appeals to the tourists but many who are members for the magazine, the insurance, legal services or because they 'want to support a national cycling organisation' may well feel that the issue really doesn't matter to them, or that unification is indeed the best course of action. The implications for all kinds of members need to be made clear in the coming weeks.

I should say that these are my personal view and not necessarily the view of my local group.
Keith.

Unless I have missed any other thread on the Forum, it seems that things have gone very quiet, which surprises me considering how emotive this all was a few months ago.

What has happened since the petition was submitted?

What happens next?

Keith.

Oh, how I sympathise! How many Dutch cyclists have any idea what a treat they are in for, when they ride off the boat at Harwich? Several times, I have helped point them in the direction of NCN route 1, but in all honesty, I feel I should say 'don't bother, you really wont enjoy this'! There's plenty of pleasant cycling country just a few miles from Harwich, and I ride in it week after week, but those first 10 miles from Harwich really are enough to put a foreign visitor off cycling in the UK before they've even started. Thank heavens there's a train to Manningtree.... sometimes.

I had a 531 frame that was I think nominally 126mm but it easily accepted 130mm.
Keith

Also bear in mind the width of the rims. This matters because it can limit the choice ot tyres that you can fit.
I have a Thorn Clubtour and for some years used 32mm tyres on the original rims, but with experience, decided to go to 25 or 28mm tyres. When I came to replace the rims (actually bought new wheels) I found that some rims would take up to 25mm, others would take minimum 28mm (and maximum of about 42mm!) but a quick chat with Spa Cycles solved that as they could offer Exal LX17 rims which nicely span the range of tyre sizes that I prefer, so I opted for those rims on Deore XT hubs (135mm) and Tiagra (130mm) for our various bikes.
The better touring specialist shops should all be able to offer good advice and build suitable wheels, matching strength, weight, comfort, tyre width etc to your requirements. eBay is fine if you're simply bargain hunting for the cheapest set of Shimano whatsits but it's no substitute for using a decent shop with people that know what they are talking about when you really need to get the right thing for the job! What's more, the decent shops are not that expensive when you consider the expertise that they have at your disposal. Look at the adverts in 'Cycle' for a few shop names.

Keith.

David wrote

I couldn't get on with compact always seemed to be on wrong front ring with chain askew and then too big a jump up or crash down.

- out of interest, what chainrings are you using, David?

Keith