Cycling UK Forum

widdo wrote:

tatanab wrote:

widdo wrote:Unsure what tyres i need.

500A. This is where I got mine https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres-20-440-500a/ I suggest not the 28 width but either of the 35s for a bit more comfort.

Nice one thanks, Think ill go with the Michelin, They look the best

If you go for the wider tyres you can have issues with mudguard clearance. Especially if the tyre is distorted which can happen as they age. Don't go for anything wider than 35mm. I recall someone was selling 37mm tyres which reduced mudguard clearance to a Rizla.
Possibly came from indonesia.
Putting kingpin in the search facility will bring up lots of previous posts.

Thankyou all for much needed advice. I have picked up a Dawes Kingpin this morning. The SA hub has 76 9 on it, Im assuming sept 1976? Unsure what tyres i need. This is what the rim has on it. Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

I cant get in touch with the person selling the Kingpin, So tomorrow i am going to look at a Twenty, 1970s i think it is, had new tyres and tubes, Owner said its in extremely good condition. Non folder too.

as I mentioned above the wheel rims on a Kingpin are arguably the most important part; practically everything else is relatively easy to replace/repair if needs be.

I'm sure that you could do the ride on the bike first shown but a (well set-up) Kingpin would be an inherently better bike.

BTW you get extra style points if you have one of those tartan bags on the rack.

Just sayin'....

cheers

tatanab wrote:

widdo wrote:Its £50 is this a normal kind of price?

About 5 years ago I paid £30 for a 1973 folding KIngpin from a cycle recycling charity. It needed new tyres and I changed some other parts. I'd say that £50 is okay.

Thanks, It looks decent condition. ITs a non folding one, I dont mind spending whatever as long as its gunna get me from coast to coast haha.

widdo wrote:Its £50 is this a normal kind of price?

About 5 years ago I paid £30 for a 1973 folding KIngpin from a cycle recycling charity. It needed new tyres and I changed some other parts. I'd say that £50 is okay.

Thanks for all your replies guys, I know nothing about these bikes, I have found a Dawes kingpin 30 miles away, Looks good condition, Says its a ladies but i assume they are generally unisex? Its £50 is this a normal kind of price?

Again, Thanks for your replies

Kingpins are a bit heavy and they use a now 'slightly difficult' tyre/rim size. But they were made in more or less the same form from the mid 1960s and they are constructed like a 'proper bike'.

This is the (first?) 1964 version



Initially the folding version was called the 'Newpin'. The following year both models were called 'Kingpin' whether folding or not, and apart from aberrations like calling the non-folding version KP500 (which made it sound more like a bag of peanuts than a bike) it stayed that way until the 1980s.

Some early versions had features you wouldn't expect, such as derailleur gears, or aluminium mudguards, or stainless mudguards, or stainless steel rims. All used 37-440 (500A) tyres. Originally they would have come with Michelin 'comfort' tyres; whitewall with their classic zig-zag tread. Amazingly Michelin still make a whitewall tyre in this size (they perhaps didn't for a while). New 440 rims are however more of a problem.

Using the 20" x 1-3/8" (451mm) rim size gives a good choice in rims; (this size is used by some BMX racers) and the tyre choice is OK. Not brilliant but OK. Using a 406 wheel results in good tyre and rim choice but problematic brake clearances on machines meant for 440 or 451 wheels.

So a Kingpin (with sound rims) is a fairly easy bike to work on; no funny screw threads, a proper headset, and most of the original parts are fairly serviceable. But (in common with a lot of folders) the brakes are not great by modern standards; a SA drum brake at the front can fix that though.

cheers

jimlews wrote:

widdo wrote: I bought it cheap a few miles away...

I will be after advice on a few upgrades too

[img]20200223_142906.jpg[/img]

Not meaning to be rude, but.. I'm not sure there is any such thing as cheap with a bike like that. Upgrades? Forget it!

Now, as to a replacement, I would recommend a Dawes Kingpin; similar to , but much better than your mates Raleigh in as much as it has such subtle refinements as proper headset bearings etc. They were available with or without the hinge in the middle. I would go for the one without. Lighter and stiffer. The Dawes Kingpin rides pretty well and has the makings of a reasonable tourer. Cheap and plentiful, these are almost a bargain, in fact.

I totally agree with the above. I sold lots of Raleigh 20s (the ones with 20x1 3/8 wheels), the later Raleighs with 20x1.75 (like yours) and Dawes Kingpins. The Kingpin was definitely the best of the bunch and yours the worst I'm afraid. As above, if you don't need it to fold, a rigid one is the better option purely for weight saving - the folding mechanism is perfectly sound. I'm referring to the ones built in the 80s and not the more recent alloy framed ones.

Ian

widdo wrote: I bought it cheap a few miles away...

I will be after advice on a few upgrades too

[img]20200223_142906.jpg[/img]

Not meaning to be rude, but.. I'm not sure there is any such thing as cheap with a bike like that. Upgrades? Forget it!

Now, as to a replacement, I would recommend a Dawes Kingpin; similar to , but much better than your mates Raleigh in as much as it has such subtle refinements as proper headset bearings etc. They were available with or without the hinge in the middle. I would go for the one without. Lighter and stiffer. The Dawes Kingpin rides pretty well and has the makings of a reasonable tourer. Cheap and plentiful, these are almost a bargain, in fact.

Sorry no photos yet. It's not been outside, it's still stuck in the living room. Some observations after putting together:

the kingpin wheel axle mounts are really neat and make sense
the steel handlebars which mount to a stem underneath the frame must weigh a lot
the rear subframe felt very light
the rear wheel with 11-34 cassette felt very heavy
the seat stay adjustment is fab
I'm not convinced about the trigger shifters - you can't see the optical indicator for a start
the IPS seat positioning is a mixed blessing. You have to set the upper mounting bolts at precisely the correct width or you risk the seat coming off and gouging the frame tube. Also it takes more time to set up the trike since the seat position should be set before adjusting the leg length.

I have replaced the oem rear wheel with one I made earlier (XT hub, Alex 101 rim, HG80 11-32 cassette). This is 230g lighter.

Next up is to replace the chainset for one with short cranks. Yet another reason I haven't completed the "sizing".

@ Cycle Tramp. “Admittedly I had fitted my 3 speed to an expedition weight steel frame, with an upright riding position, front and rear racks and 1.75 inch tyres...
...perhaps if I used a lighter frame, thinner tyres, lost the front rack and used handle bars which allowed you to change positions to reduce my wind resistance then the gap between my high and middle gears may not have felt so prominent.”

To my mind such an arrangement is asking a bit much of a 3 speed hub and the proposed possible changes would be my direction of travel too ... might keep the front rack though. Drop or less upright handlebars would, I think, make a positive difference too, particularly when riding into headwinds.

Edit. ( I’ve been thinking about gearing a lot. My objective is to be able to sustain the best practical average speed and part of doing that means not having to get off and push. One also has to both understand the limited gear spread of a three speed and accept the loss of the overdrive and granny gears one has on a derailleur set-up.

I’m favouring a top gear that spins out a bit earlier but let’s me continue to use it into a slight headwind and up a slight gradient, that being a way of maintaining a higher average speed though the sacrifice is highest achievable speed. That’s a trade off between having to drop down into (much slower) second gear and having a top gear that doesn’t max your possible instantaneous speed but instead allows you to stay in (a flexible ) top gear when a light headwind or slight rise occurs - faster overall progress through avoiding a (wide spaced) change down. As an addition the lower top gear links to having a lower bottom and that in turn allows much better speed than walking; first isn’t that low and having to get off and walk is both likely (to happen) and when it does it will it knock a big hole in your average speed. In terms of maxing instantaneous speed up a hill a very low bottom isn’t ideal, but the average speed losses incurred by walking (when you have to) are much greater than the marginal gains of a slightly higher gear matched to slightly less steep hills. )


@ mjr . Thank you, I would agree with all of your points and this morning I was thinking what a nice match your Kingpin and the three speed hub were. I should have clarified my earlier post to make clear that I was thinking about hub gears with many ratios rather than derailleur gears. My experience with my Sach 5 Speed Hub has been very positive, compared to a derailleur it has needed virtually no maintenance, the wheel has stayed true whilst derailleur geared ones tend not to and cleaning is something that I rarely need to do, whereas derailleur gears are dirt magnets. Yep, hub gears leave lots more time for riding ... and chains last ages too.

With building a wheel in mind I have a couple of loose (not in a wheel) SA hub gears which I need to inspect and then service as best I can. Their current state of repair is unknown, they are second hand and I’ve had them for decades (speculative purchases). The hubs are hidden outside within my stash of bike parts but as far as I know they are Nottingham AW’s. A few issues loom:

# The drop outs into which the hub will go are 120 mm but the standard SA is for a 110 mm drop-out and has a ‘short’ 5&3/4” axle. Do I need to obtain a longer axle (for my wider drop-outs) and if so what variant? 6&1/4” HSA 108 or 6&13/32” HSA 370 or what?

Edit. By my measurements and calculations the 5&3/4” axle is roughly 5mm too short for my bike, the original alternatively longer HSA108 is no longer available so I’ve ordered a HSA370.

# I’m uncertain how far a hub can be stripped when it’s not in a wheel and if it’s an issue how might I manage it, etc. ?

Edit. It’s likely harder but a hub can be striped outside of a wheel. The body has to be held in a vice (use soft jaws and hold next to the drive side flange) and the thread ball ring un-screwed from the body. The traditional (soft) punch and hammer method failed for me on both bulbs but on the older of the two a peg spanner and extension tube torqued the ball ring out nicely. I tried hard and for a couple of hours with the newer dated hub but ended up scrapping it for parts by sawing through the body to get at the internals, for the later hubs there is a special SA tool with rounded nibs but it’s £30 plus - an eBay seller sells a variety of nib-ed tools to suit various models at a much better price.

Edit. I got the hub apart and back together with the help of on-line videos. Gained a lot of insight and ended up slightly varying the reassembly procedure for my particular older hub. It occurs to me that clamping the hub in a vice to unscrew the ball-ring from the body is a poor (if only) solution, the hub distorts slightly and grips the threads of the part you’re trying to remove. Next time instead of fibre ‘soft’ jaws I will try wooden pieces with a shallow wide V cut in them and an old inner tube on the hub. That should spread and relive the amount of pressure required to gripe/secure the hub, hopefully the ball ring will then rotate out easier.

The reassembled hub tests really nicely on the bench. However for the long term support (primarily new long axle availability) I’d currently prefer to hold that old pre NIG hub as a spare and to buy something more modern (but still second hand) off of eBay.

# I’ll doubtless need some replacement parts but aren’t sure who are the better sources of supply are (ie. comprehensive range of parts at competitive prices). So far SJS, Practical Cycles and Holland Bike Shop look like potential suppliers. Please, does anyone have any recommendations ?

Tandem is the main mode of transport since Mrs RJB retired. A long way behind is my tourer come hack a converted MTB from when they first started to become popular. Next are my 2 shoppers which are used as local run abouts or thrown in the car for short rides with Mrs rjb. I ride them equally so no preference although only the Kingpin has lights (3 speed S/A Dynohub). The trike has the occasional outing in the summer but my 2 road bikes haven't been ridden last year and i would keep the 531 peugeot for nostalga and the almost new Focus would never sell unless i gave it away so i might as well hang onto it.
I have a 2nd Kingpin which i keep at my daughters for nipping to the shops.
The tandem cost me £350 sold to me S/H from this forum. The MTB tourer cost me £300 new way back in 1988. The 2 road bikes cost approx £900 new for both, discounted at the year end, and the 3 used shoppers the grand sum of £10, one being donated to me by a kind fellow on this forum. The trike conversion was £100 and the Falcon Corsa bike was originally my daughters which cost £120 new but had endured a good thrashing at university.
Total outlay was less than 2K over 30 years for my whole stable. ie about £60 per year.

omeone did notice, the pannier police, four word symmetry is against the inside left leg. "Painful" said Edward.Reohn2 carefully counted, and horror of horrors there were indeed the wrong number of legs, and words, too!

Life would never ever become more cycling-orientated, unlessreohn2 wrote:
My head hurts
, "but why", asked Edward, "its the third leg tapping". "Same old story!" shouted the hamster. "All squirrels and rabbits with fluffy tails and malicious inductive hyperventilation causes regular Campag." "So does All-Bran!" shouted Herman Munster, shouted the hamster from his wheel. The trouble was, the squeaky wheel was contaminated with eclipse oil from the BBC gushbag, and BBC controller was upside down masquerading as a ITV employee with a Dawes Kingpin which had the leather saddle adjusted for maximum agony by tightening the bullock strangulation mech ten clicks on his sore throbbing thumb, but he couldn't account for his whereabouts on the big wheel until Fred Trueman appeared, to rub the umpire up the off side leg.

"Egad!" cried Rumpelstiltskin, T'spinnin wheels squeakin'." The trouble was the hamster afterall!" A spot of marmalade on the toast dripped off and landed on