Cycling UK Forum

I wanted a dynamo hub SP/Kasai and I went for the handbuilt wheel option, the extra cost was £190 all in over the standard build. For that I could specify the rims and spokes but I went with Spa advice as to my mind they are the experts on wheels. There’s probably another 10 pages coming on hand built v factory wheels!

I have SON, SP and Shimano hubs, the performance difference is too small for me to notice, the differences are in build quality, where you get what you pay for. though you might be paying more for more than you need. I like the Edelux II front light, I don't think it's notably better than some of the B&M lights I've ridden alongside, though it does have a superior build and reputation.
I'm les sure about the SON rear light, I have the B&M equivalent small light, that Spa don't seem to stock, similar performance, not the same build quality but is a third of the price. Whether I'd go for either of those depends on what other lights I was/wasn't intending on using. They're small and intense, other lights like the B&M Toplight are a larger blob at lower intensity. I like to have both, so whatever I chose as my dynamo light would be the opposite of my battery light. If I were only going to have one, it would be the larger style.
Wiring a rear light neatly is a black art, how messy you consider it depends on your tolerance, I've never seen any instillation that's invisible. I spend quite a lot of time on mine, do it once and it's done for life. I heat shrink the cable to the brake cable/hose, that's as neat as I can get it, but it's still more noticeable than I'd like. I don't know how Spa fix it, but if you don't like it you can have another go. I've had a couple of bikes where I thought I wouldn't bother with a rear dynamo light, but in the end the convenience has outweighed the aesthetics.

I have two sets of wheels for my Audax style bike both built by Spa. They both run Schwalbe pro ones in 28 mm and have kinlin rims with an SP dynamo. One is a touring build 32/36 holes with tubes, the other a lighter set with 26/28 spokes and tubeless tyres. The lighter set gets me round the same long hilly rides about 1 km per hour faster measured over multiple routes and several months use . There is a difference it’s just whether it’s significant for the use it’s being put to, for commuting I’d say not.

andrew_s wrote: ↑5 Sep 2023, 11:18am That Fischer clamp is the type usually used at the rear.
I'd expect a clamp for the front fork blades to be rare. Using one is fairly dodgy as the fork blades are tapered so the clamps loosen and move downwards with any movement, and the consequences of getting the dynamo in the spokes can be high.

That Fischer clamp is the usual type made of two pieces of bent metal connected by two screws. I have never understood why this crass design error persists. If you screw it on tightly the metal bends. It does not work well on sizes of tube that don't fit the bends in the plates. It is almost guaranteed to work loose as the metal bends.

A far better design is like a jubilee clip: a flexible strap with a thread cut in it and a screw that tightens the strap. I have had a couple of rear lights that fit that way. This design adapts to any size of tube and never comes loose. It is so secure you can make it out of plastics. It might be possible to use a standard jubilee clip to hold a metal L-shaped bracket against the frame or fork. It would be far more secure! I think you can buy stainless steel jubilee clips: https://www.amazon.co.uk/InduSKY-Adjust ... 9hdGY&th=1.

geocycle wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 12:06pm On the dynamo, if you are using it every day then I would probably go for the SON as I have on my Thorn raven sport which tours and commutes. I'm on my second in 20 years, it works. I went for the much cheaper SP on the Spa audax and on the recently ordered elan as it is used much less frequently. I have two wheels with the SP hub that can be easily swapped and have not missed a beat yet. I don't know the Kasai so cannot comment.

On the rack, I use a stainless steel Tubus Fly. Before that I had a black Tubus cargo which rusted badly. Both worked fine with two panniers on the Thorn for week long tours, not camping. I'm surprised how strong and stable the Fly has been. The Fly looks to be about £90-£100 now.

Ta. Good to hear about the Fly - I had thought that one might be a bit too minimal.

On the dynamo, if you are using it every day then I would probably go for the SON as I have on my Thorn raven sport which tours and commutes. I'm on my second in 20 years, it works. I went for the much cheaper SP on the Spa audax and on the recently ordered elan as it is used much less frequently. I have two wheels with the SP hub that can be easily swapped and have not missed a beat yet. I don't know the Kasai so cannot comment.

On the rack, I use a stainless steel Tubus Fly. Before that I had a black Tubus cargo which rusted badly. Both worked fine with two panniers on the Thorn for week long tours, not camping. I'm surprised how strong and stable the Fly has been. The Fly looks to be about £90-£100 now.

plancashire wrote: ↑3 Sep 2023, 4:54pm

gazza_d wrote: ↑2 Sep 2023, 6:13pm I have the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Sport Senso Plus light. Which is 80lux and switches on and off automatically.
A terrific light with a really good bright beam. It's paired to an SP dynamo from Spa.

In two years it's almost doubled in price from £45 to over £80 though.
...

I can find this light for about £47 here in Germany from a shop I use: https://www.bike-components.de/de/busch ... ng-p38114/. They don't send to UK, but they do USA at 40 Euro a pop. I suspect your £80 might be a side-effect of B****t.

Oh yes, it's the B word! Even with 10 euros for shipping as they will ship to UK that looked reasonable. Then I noticed the banner! Jeez

Very pleased with the lighting from all of our B+M front lamps powered by SP dynamo hubs.

My tourer's current headlamp is a Lumotec Luxus with USB charging. But two previous Luxus U have failed, one during a downpour, so I wouldn't recommend them. And I now know that I don't need the USB charging.

My wife's tourer has a Cyo IQ Premium T Senso Plus. Excellent.

We don't use any of the clever settings or functions.

And my favourite bracket for fitting on the fork crown is the Jtek:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lighting-sp ... ing-black/

Jonathan

gazza_d wrote: ↑2 Sep 2023, 6:13pm I have the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Sport Senso Plus light. Which is 80lux and switches on and off automatically.
A terrific light with a really good bright beam. It's paired to an SP dynamo from Spa.

In two years it's almost doubled in price from £45 to over £80 though.
...

I can find this light for about £47 here in Germany from a shop I use: https://www.bike-components.de/de/busch ... ng-p38114/. They don't send to UK, but they do USA at 40 Euro a pop. I suspect your £80 might be a side-effect of B****t.

I have the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Sport Senso Plus light. Which is 80lux and switches on and off automatically.
A terrific light with a really good bright beam. It's paired to an SP dynamo from Spa.

In two years it's almost doubled in price from £45 to over £80 though.

B&M do ebike versions and I would look for one of them. I understand the electricity from the battery is DC where a dynamo will be ac so you need a light to match the energy source

geocycle wrote: ↑1 Sep 2023, 11:42am I don't know much about wheels so I left that to them. Both 28 spokes as I am not heavily loading this bike, Kinlin rims, Bitex rear hub and SP PL-8 dynamo front hub.

I've been happy with the SP dynamo on my other bike and it is much cheaper than the SON. It won't get ridden much at night but I do find having dynamo lighting useful, even last week (August!) I got caught in thick mist. i just have a simple B+M Eyc. IMO worth the extra £30 over a standard hub. I have a SON and Edelux combo on my loaded tourer/commuter as that gets used every day over winter.

I imagine Spa would likewise recommend Kinlin/Bitex to LucyEliz, and it's what I would choose rather than have a factory Shimano wheelset mentioned in the lowest price suggested Elan builds on Spa's website.

LucyEliz, if you don't already know what you will do about lights (e.g. rechargeable or dynamo), you might want to give that consideration before you visit Spa.

slowster wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 8:55pm

geocycle wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 6:18pm The elan is pitched as a light tourer but can be built up in various ways. I’ll be using mine for long day rides most of the time, like the Ti audax I currently have but putting 38mm tyres to try some new off-road routes.

What were Spa's wheel recommendations, and what did you decide on?

I don't know much about wheels so I left that to them. Both 28 spokes as I am not heavily loading this bike, Kinlin rims, Bitex rear hub and SP PL-8 dynamo front hub.

I've been happy with the SP dynamo on my other bike and it is much cheaper than the SON. It won't get ridden much at night but I do find having dynamo lighting useful, even last week (August!) I got caught in thick mist. i just have a simple B+M Eyc. IMO worth the extra £30 over a standard hub. I have a SON and Edelux combo on my loaded tourer/commuter as that gets used every day over winter.

slowandsteady wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 5:47pm Also, looking at dynamo light systems, what's the optimum spec? something that looks nice on a trad. tourer, not something that looks like it fell off a UFO! I looked at Son, B&W and Supernova so far.
Any opinions on hub dynamos? SON vs Shimano (SP sound a bit sh*t? )
Clever tips for cable routing?
Clever tips for USB charging ports for GPS etc?
TIA!

I'll leave the bike choices alone, most posters will have their own preferences and not many of us will have had a decent amount of time on more than a small selection. That even goes for some of the professional reviewers, don't be surprised if you preferences turn out to be different. Starting point ought to be what you know - top of the list size and fit, followed by usage, then thinking about what you liked and didn't about the previous bike.

Dynamos and hubs I'm happier to jump in - I have a SON (Classic), Shimano (LX) and SP (PD-8), the prices were in that order. The SON needed a service in about the same time as a Shimano wears out and servicing the SON costs about the same as replacing the Shimano. The differences between the electrical performance is IMO too small to be concerned with, the SON is a little better for most riders overall, but none are the best at everything. If you have the cash and want to splash it buy a SON, otherwise there's no disadvantage in getting a Shimano.
I have, or had, lights from Supernova, B&M and SON, I like the Edelux II, the beam on the B&M IQ-X is slightly better, but the bracket and switch are inferior. I had the original Supernova dynamo light, it was ahead of it's time by a good margin, but IMO the reflector tech developed by B&M and licensed to SON is superior to that used in current Supernovas (At the same price point, I think there's a super light at £££'s that I haven't had a proper look at)
Battery lights have always outperformed dynamo lights, the drawback used to be run times, with modern LEDs and battery tech that's now overcome. The dynamo advantage is the convenience of always being available. My choice if you intend to do a lot of night riding would be to have both, treat then as a high and low beam. Because you're relying on each to fulfil different priorities, run times and illumination, you can afford to compromise on both and get a two light system that will IMO be better than any single light and cost less.
Charging - I bought a secondhand Igaro D1, but haven't used it except to test. I carry it as a back up, I can unplug the light and connect it with reusable zip ties in a minute and the unit and battery will sit in the bar bag. Mostly I charge my gadgets and battery packs on the mains, I need a couple of hours every third day. The Igaro was cheap and I like the security of having it, I'm not sure I'll ever actually need it.

slowandsteady wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 5:47pm I'm riding an old Genesis Croix de Fer 20, normally slow and steady 1-2 day cycle-camping on-road/canal-path/south downs way in the UK (not crazy downhill stuff obvs!) but hoping to do some longer trips abroad eventually.

Thinking about replacing with a new Kona Sutra 2023 as recommended by TomsBikeTrip. Some new things for me:
Bar-end shifter levers, will I ever get used to them?
Gears, my Genesis has 105s, should I upgrade the standard Deore? or are they OK?
Any general advice on the Kona Sutra vs the CdF?[/list][/list]

Also, looking at dynamo light systems, what's the optimum spec? something that looks nice on a trad. tourer, not something that looks like it fell off a UFO! I looked at Son, B&W and Supernova so far.
Any opinions on hub dynamos? SON vs Shimano (SP sound a bit sh*t? )
Clever tips for cable routing?
Clever tips for USB charging ports for GPS etc?

TIA!

Forgot to say, it was Toms bike trip reviews that nudged me to buy my second hand Sutra, as he’s very complimentary about the bike and likes it a lot

slowandsteady wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 5:47pm I'm riding an old Genesis Croix de Fer 20, normally slow and steady 1-2 day cycle-camping on-road/canal-path/south downs way in the UK (not crazy downhill stuff obvs!) but hoping to do some longer trips abroad eventually.

Thinking about replacing with a new Kona Sutra 2023 as recommended by TomsBikeTrip. Some new things for me:
Bar-end shifter levers, will I ever get used to them?

Also, looking at dynamo light systems, what's the optimum spec? something that looks nice on a trad. tourer, not something that looks like it fell off a UFO! I looked at Son, B&W and Supernova so far.
Any opinions on hub dynamos? SON vs Shimano (SP sound a bit sh*t? )
Clever tips for cable routing?
Clever tips for USB charging ports for GPS etc?

TIA!

If you need lights get a hubdynamo. If you only tour for a few days on end a powerbank is a better solution for charging

Avoid lights with a rotational symmetric beam, for road use get one with a decent horizontal cut-off. But don't fit them upside down.

I prefer bar-end shifters above just about anything else for touring. Shifting with a full hand (or whacking it) is way more ergonomic (try a trigger with frozen fingers) and you can shift without dropping your food
Some bar-ends shift less precise than others, as the ratchets have play in the housing. It's a crap shoot and not much you can do about it being riveted together