Cycling UK Forum

slowandsteady wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 5:47pm I'm riding an old Genesis Croix de Fer 20, normally slow and steady 1-2 day cycle-camping on-road/canal-path/south downs way in the UK (not crazy downhill stuff obvs!) but hoping to do some longer trips abroad eventually.

Thinking about replacing with a new Kona Sutra 2023 as recommended by TomsBikeTrip. Some new things for me:
Bar-end shifter levers, will I ever get used to them?
Gears, my Genesis has 105s, should I upgrade the standard Deore? or are they OK?
Any general advice on the Kona Sutra vs the CdF?[/list][/list]

Also, looking at dynamo light systems, what's the optimum spec? something that looks nice on a trad. tourer, not something that looks like it fell off a UFO! I looked at Son, B&W and Supernova so far.
Any opinions on hub dynamos? SON vs Shimano (SP sound a bit sh*t? )
Clever tips for cable routing?
Clever tips for USB charging ports for GPS etc?

That'a lot of questions on a lot of different questions. How about searching the archives first: there's a lot of existing information that would be very useful to you.

Please say if you'd like some help with searching.

Jonathan

I'm riding an old Genesis Croix de Fer 20, normally slow and steady 1-2 day cycle-camping on-road/canal-path/south downs way in the UK (not crazy downhill stuff obvs!) but hoping to do some longer trips abroad eventually.

Thinking about replacing with a new Kona Sutra 2023 as recommended by TomsBikeTrip. Some new things for me:
Bar-end shifter levers, will I ever get used to them?
Gears, my Genesis has 105s, should I upgrade the standard Deore? or are they OK?
Any general advice on the Kona Sutra vs the CdF?[/list][/list]

Also, looking at dynamo light systems, what's the optimum spec? something that looks nice on a trad. tourer, not something that looks like it fell off a UFO! I looked at Son, B&W and Supernova so far.
Any opinions on hub dynamos? SON vs Shimano (SP sound a bit sh*t? )
Clever tips for cable routing?
Clever tips for USB charging ports for GPS etc?

TIA!

Chuff-chuff has gone!

Test ride complete, and I have a silent front wheel. Thinking about it, I reckon it's been like that for a couple of months. I put it down to something in the front mudguard or possible the SP-8.

It was the spokes all along!
SP-8 dynohub is off the hook thank goodness.

The question remains, on how can the spokes loosen when they were tight and stress-relieved. Never had this problem before.
Separate thread on here needs raising methinks.

Mick F wrote: ↑30 Jun 2023, 3:57pm

iandusud wrote: ↑30 Jun 2023, 6:08am My experience building lots of 17" Moulton wheels taught me that you need to give them A LOT of tension as the spokes are a) short (particularly when radial) and b) plain 14 gauge. Both of these factors mean that they are not very elastic compared to a much longer DB spoke.

You are no-doubt correct regarding tightness. What I don't know is how they became loose, when I built it tight.

It won't be Saturday (tomorrow) for a test ride, but it could possibly be Sunday .......... fingers crossed.

I think the answer is that all spokes stretch when tensioned but after a while relax a bit and loose some of that tension. This is also the case with big wheels with much longer spokes. It therefore has to be taken into account when building any wheel but is clearly more of an issue on small wheels. When I was building a lot Moulton wheels I once got a phone call from Monty Young of Condors asking me how on earth to get enough tension in the rear wheel spokes whilst maintaining the huge amount of dish required. I explained the technique I'd developed which was to leave the NDS spokes loose, get lots of tension on the DS spokes and then tighten the NDS spokes to pull the rim back to the centre. Re the front radially spoked wheel, just go mad with the spoke key!

iandusud wrote: ↑30 Jun 2023, 6:08am My experience building lots of 17" Moulton wheels taught me that you need to give them A LOT of tension as the spokes are a) short (particularly when radial) and b) plain 14 gauge. Both of these factors mean that they are not very elastic compared to a much longer DB spoke.

You are no-doubt correct regarding tightness. What I don't know is how they became loose, when I built it tight.

It won't be Saturday (tomorrow) for a test ride, but it could possibly be Sunday .......... fingers crossed.

Mick F wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023, 2:59pm Hi guys!

Wheel out and into the wheel-jig this afternoon and had a play with my Spokey Pro.
Most of the spokes weren't tight in the slightest.
Most needed a complete half-turn, and a few a quarter-turn.
The wheel is true, and maybe even true-er than before.

I put the wheel back in the up-turned bike and it's still central between the brake blocks.

All I can do, is to try a ride and listen.
If the chuff-chuff is still there, it's not the wheel or the mudguard or the brakes ......... but the hub.

Maybe Saturday or Sunday ride.

My experience building lots of 17" Moulton wheels taught me that you need to give them A LOT of tension as the spokes are a) short (particularly when radial) and b) plain 14 gauge. Both of these factors mean that they are not very elastic compared to a much longer DB spoke.

Choughs don't seem to be around here!

We have blackbirds, but they don't have red legs or a red beak.

Mick, aren't choughs a feature of where you live?

Hi guys!

Wheel out and into the wheel-jig this afternoon and had a play with my Spokey Pro.
Most of the spokes weren't tight in the slightest.
Most needed a complete half-turn, and a few a quarter-turn.
The wheel is true, and maybe even true-er than before.

I put the wheel back in the up-turned bike and it's still central between the brake blocks.

All I can do, is to try a ride and listen.
If the chuff-chuff is still there, it's not the wheel or the mudguard or the brakes ......... but the hub.

Maybe Saturday or Sunday ride.

I don't know if it is relevant to Mick's mystery wheel noise, but I wonder what effect ambient temperature has on spoke tension. For example, if a wheel is put together and tensioned, good and true, on an autumnal day in a room at 17c, how would that wheel be affected by being at 24c for a prolonged period. If at all. The spokes will grow in length as they warm up, but the effective ERD of the rim will also increase by a small amount.

Well .................

The bike is a Moulton with 406 rims.
I've turned the bike upside down ......... it stands steadily like that.
I spun the front wheel, and all is fine. Nothing stuck in the mudguard, and no loose spoke.

The thing is, with these bikes, they have a suspension system and you get all sorts odd rhythmical noises .............. but what I hear when actually riding the beast, is a chuff-chuff noise.

Spokes:
Some time back I re-laced the front wheel that was 28h 2x into radial both sides. I have just been feeling the spokes, and I reckon that they have ALL unwound a tad as they all appear a lot less tight than when I built it. It could well be that it's the WHEEL that is chuff-chuff-ing and not the SP dyno hub.

Upside down and no weight on the bike, the wheel is happy and true and round.

Sounds like I need to get my Spokey out and re-tension all 28 spokes.

pwa wrote: ↑28 Jun 2023, 4:37pm

Mick F wrote: ↑28 Jun 2023, 9:14am

pwa wrote: ↑27 Jun 2023, 12:47pm
I'd be suspecting the tyre rubbing on something with that sort of noise. Have you got a loose spoke maybe?

I've yet to check. Busy with other stuff - re-decorating the living room is only one of the things.

Tyre rub on the inside of the mudguard sounds the best bet.

After I asked if you had a loose spoke, it occurred to me that saying someone has a loose spoke could be one of those metaphors for not being quite all there.
That is definitely not what I meant!

I'm watching paint dry at the moment, and hopefully the wall I've just emulsioned doesn't have any "holidays". I'll wash the brushes out if it's fine .............. and then I'll have a look at the bike front hub noise. Hopefully, I'll find a bit of mud or summat stuck inside the front mudguard.

Back later.

iandusud wrote: ↑28 Jun 2023, 6:32am

mattsccm wrote: ↑28 Jun 2023, 6:28am My Exposure branded one eventually had a bearing go. As this one wan't in the UK via the official importers, (I assume it was via Exposure) they wouldn't handle the standard repair whereby they sent it back to Taiwan. All the purchaser does here is pay them You can do it independently but you have to post it and either insure it at its value or say it has no value.
Check with your supplier.
I mended mine myself but then killed it doing something else.

How did the failure present itself?

Sideways play like normal knackered bearings and when they came out they were!

Mick F wrote: ↑28 Jun 2023, 9:14am

pwa wrote: ↑27 Jun 2023, 12:47pm

Mick F wrote: ↑27 Jun 2023, 12:06pm Very happy with mine too ................ or maybe not ................

There seems to be a chuff-chuff noise from it recently. I've yet to investigate, but I suppose it could be something else up-front. Mudguard or tyre perhaps or even a brake block catching. Can't seem to hear anything untoward when I spin the wheel.

I'd be suspecting the tyre rubbing on something with that sort of noise. Have you got a loose spoke maybe?

I've yet to check. Busy with other stuff - re-decorating the living room is only one of the things.

Tyre rub on the inside of the mudguard sounds the best bet.

After I asked if you had a loose spoke, it occurred to me that saying someone has a loose spoke could be one of those metaphors for not being quite all there.
That is definitely not what I meant!

pwa wrote: ↑27 Jun 2023, 12:47pm

Mick F wrote: ↑27 Jun 2023, 12:06pm Very happy with mine too ................ or maybe not ................

There seems to be a chuff-chuff noise from it recently. I've yet to investigate, but I suppose it could be something else up-front. Mudguard or tyre perhaps or even a brake block catching. Can't seem to hear anything untoward when I spin the wheel.

I'd be suspecting the tyre rubbing on something with that sort of noise. Have you got a loose spoke maybe?

I've yet to check. Busy with other stuff - re-decorating the living room is only one of the things.

Tyre rub on the inside of the mudguard sounds the best bet.