Cycling UK Forum

So what size should you make your ersatz DS flange? Well, in this age of 12s etc, the larger sprockets must overhang the spokes to some extent and this may limit the the DS flange size. Realistically, if one sprocket (the largest) overhangs the spokes, it probably needs a connection to the second largest sprocket, and the PCD of those connections may constrain the size of the DS flange. At present, we only have a single sprocket that overhangs, so the size of the second largest sprocket could be important. If, however, we ever get to the stage of having two overhanging sprockets, it'll be the size of the third largest sprocket which could be important.

Since even racing bikes typically now have cassettes which can go to 34t assuming a second sprocket size of at least 36t on a touring bike does not seem out of order; this should allow a DS flange size of about 100mm (so a PCD of about 92mm) or so.

This would make the DS spoking much torsionally stiffer, even when built x2. This could allow the NDS spokes to be radial; if the hubshell is torsionally stiff, radial spoking on the NDS might be acceptable, even with a disc/drum brake. This should give scope for a considerable improvement in spoke bracing angle/ tension on both sides of the wheel.

Back in the far-off mists of time, large flange hubs used to be popular, even though they were usually more expensive too. For a time, Campagnolo made a kind of mongrel rear hub, called the 'HiLo', with a RH flange that was large, and a small LH flange. This design conferred no appreciable benefit if the wheel was built full tangent or thereabouts but what difficulties could be expected if the wheel is built x2 on the DS? The wheel will be fine, since torsional stiffness will be about the same or better and the bracing angle of the spokes has been improved. This is quite a lot like having your cake and eating it too. Little wonder then, that these hubs were and are prized.

Today, most hubs are resolutely built with small flanges (although the widespread use of disc brakes has altered this landscape somewhat). The reason SF hubs are (were) so popular is simple; they were lighter and easier (cheaper) to make, and did the job. It is worth noting that even if the spokes are replaced with much shorter radial items, the weight saved in the spokes is rarely enough to 'pay for' larger flanges, even aluminium ones. Occasionally the flanges in SF hubs would split or crack, but not enough to be really troublesome and rarely without good reason. Corrosion is usually implicated, and IME such failures are most likely to happen to the DS rear flange, which is often the most highly loaded.

A very long time ago I went to the trouble of making my own large flange cassette hub for my touring bike, in good part because I didn't know about shimano tandem hubs, which could have saved me a lot of bother. Anyway I made flange extensions for a SF hub, by turning a large Al bar. I then drilled the flange extensions accurately, using a dividing head. My flange extensions were electron beam welded into place (because I could) but were designed so that it would still work OK, even if the weld fails completely by simply including a joggle in the joint design. All this poncing about with thick bars and dividing heads etc.took ages, which hardly encouraged a repeat performance. However, these days I'd SG the parts; much easier.

If you encounter a flange failure, it is very easy just to see this as a problem which can only be solved by recourse to a new hub. Actually it is probably better viewed as nature's way of inviting you to make your own HiLo hub.

jimpyjimoater wrote: ↑3 May 2025, 8:50pm I plan to embark on a expedition from Rotterdam ferry port down to Liege in Belgium

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks in advance!

check prices, and compare with the alternatives
dinner facities are uninspiring, consider bringing your own and eating in the cabin which is the only quiet place not terrorized by the 'entertainment'
breakfast is passable

Hi there would you be able to post your grasshopper ? Thanks mark

rareposter wrote: ↑2 May 2025, 11:47am And secondly - system performance. Get hydraulics - full proper ones, not some half-way-house job like HyRd. Cable discs are adequate at best. But as a general rule you get all the bad points of cable systems like cable stretch, wear and degradation and very few of the performance benefits of a proper disc system other than not wearing out your rims.

The reason for trying the HyRd and settling (for now) for a mechanical set up is due in no small part to cost of 'upgrading' my 11sp Campag Athena to an equivalent hydraulic set up. I have 2 bikes with hydraulics, both have flat bars, so i am aware of the difference in performance, the hydraulic are nearly as good as the rim brakes on my best bike and Airnimal

rareposter wrote: ↑2 May 2025, 11:47am You can address some of it by using the very best cables (inner and outer) that you can possibly get and being careful with the cable runs but you're just introducing complexity and cost to an already "adequate" system rather than fixing the actual system.

Not that it has any bearing on rotor wear / pad position, i do of course use quality cables/outers, its a fully enclosed set up due to its CX heritage, there is literally no way to put loops/kinks into the run.

Thank you all for your wonderful answers! I think a front tray or a bar bag may be the answer, but I'd like to share my current best effort, which is very gently strapped onto the top of a front pannier with the rain cover then pulled over the top so it doesn't fall off. Only works for flattish patisserie (eclairs are good!) and I wouldn't trust it on uneven ground but seems ok for most

Many thanks, everyone, for your time and for your valuable information. I think I've got enough info now to work on.

Very grateful to you all.

Graham O wrote: ↑3 May 2025, 3:08pm I had an annoying ticking from the drivetrain which took 2 years to find and it was the quick release. It looks like your bike has through axle wheel mounting, and I really don't know if they can suffer from the same problem, but "if all else fails". Addition of a bit of grease on the surfaces greatly reduced the problem, but in the end a change of quick release solved it. If I put the original QR in the wheel, the ticking comes back. Just a suggestion, but the symptoms sound similar.

Have done just that today! I'll see what happens.

rareposter wrote: ↑4 May 2025, 12:10pm.....at worst they're only a few percent less than any other hub gear.....

sorry, but you are quite mistaken; the range difference is typically of the order of 20% on the same batteries. I don't dispute your other claims, but the range difference is significant, and raw efficiency lies behind it. Last time I checked, battery capacity was one of the things that you were expected to pay through the nose for. Range and range difference are a much bigger deal than you are making out.

I've replied to your PM

+1 for the Schwalbe G-One Allround which I find are excellent for both road and easy gravel https://www.merlincycles.com/schwalbe-g ... 09925.html (the link says 700c but the listing is for 584 - I've bought several). 38mm will look very small compared with your current tyres. This tyre https://www.bananaindustries.co.uk/prod ... 8282163573 is a bit bigger and an attractive price but I've not tried them.

I must mention the outdoor tables at Levens Village Shop, where you can sip your machine tea/coffee and eat your Endmoor Bakery pasties and cakes. The kind owners have set up a very handy bike work stand complete with all the tools and wrenches, etc for doing "on the go" adjustments and pumping your tyres.
There is also a box with a good selection of maps of the area.
Levens is a mile or so off the old A6/A590 junction that used to be a hell hole for traffic before Tarmac Construction blasted its way over Shap.

I have built about 10 wheels, so barely more experienced than you. With that caveat out of the way here is my advice.

You will need something to start off the nipples on the spokes.
I bought the nipple driver shown above but then on the advice of someone here (Brucey I think) I made the nipple driver below it from an old spoke and nipple. It works much better.

When you start building wheels you will need to order the correct length spokes. To use an online spoke length calculator you need to know the dimensions of the hub you are using and the effective rim diameter (ERD) of your chosen rim. Do not rely on the manufacturers spec for the ERD but measure it yourself (you can use 2 spokes of known length threaded in from opposite sides of the rim and then measuring the gap between them).
Good luck
Steve

You need to understand your phone or tell us what it is.