im not looking for a Vittoria Hyper, READ THE ACTUAL FIRST SENTENCE

[freeflow]

Panracer gravel kings?

[The utility cyclist]

So what happens when the perfect tyre you've tracked down and fallen in love with wears out? You already know it's discontinued, aren't you setting yourself up for disappointment, won't you forever be in mourning? Isn't it sometimes better to have one that got away and dream?
This isn't a criticism, or very helpful in your search - I've spent plenty of time, effort and money searching out the perfect part. Some have been worth it, others not, none of them have been magic and in every case there have been easier alternatives that would have done just as well.

I've tended like others to buy up a stash, my favourite 32mm road tyre up to now has been a specialized Borough pro folder, ridiculously fast tyre, great puncture resistance though not long lasting compared to many of the hard wearing tyres but then I didn't buy it for that. I'm down to my last three. The good thing was it was a fairly unknown/low on the radar tyre so they didn't cost a lot to buy NOS but there are none around now. Currently trying out a 32 and 40mm Corratec tyre that is all about speed in the 32mm (circa 270g!) but I want something that will be a bit more rugged for going off road. Your point is valid of course.

Is this the right version?
https://www.4thebike.de/komponenten/rei ... faltreifen

Bingo, thanks.

[Brucey]

in fairness it looks like a nice tyre, maybe it is worth some effort to find it.

On the face of it, it is 0.7W faster than the hyper, but it has a tread that is substantially thicker and heavier, so ought to be more resistant to punctures. Win-Win? Sort of, maybe... If you choose your tyre pressure based on comfort, you will need to run the Almotion at a lower pressure than the Hyper, because it is less supple. Once you do that, it no longer has a Crr benefit.

Which still leaves you with a better puncture resistance I suppose, but that is what you might expect from a tyre that is so much heavier in the tread, isn't it?

cheers

[The utility cyclist]

Granted I may have missed something but what is the objection to the tubeless version?

It's constructed differently for one, tubeless specific tyres don't work as well with a tube as would the non tubeless version, rolling resistance for one goes up and the chap at rolling resistance reckons the tubeless version is slower than the tubed version.

It's also almost 10% heavier on a tyre that is already well over what I'd normally ride at 660g v 610g, and as I'll be accelerating/decelerating a lot off road I don't want to add even more weight. To compare it'd be an extra 600g/pair compared to my fast rolling 40mm corratec tyres which are 350g.

From that German website linked it's going to cost me £10 more for a pair compared to the cheapest tubeless version that IF they match what is being said about them with regards to durability and how fast they roll wouldn't be that big a deal for me, especially considering I'd be needing to spend £250 for a set of decent tubeless wheels plus all the faff of setting them up.
Maybe in a few years I'll change my thinking but for now I'd rather go for the std tubed version all things considered even if that costs me a bit more.

[The utility cyclist]

in fairness it looks like a nice tyre, maybe it is worth some effort to find it.

On the face of it, it is 0.7W faster than the hyper, but it has a tread that is substantially thicker and heavier, so ought to be more resistant to punctures. Win-Win? Sort of, maybe... If you choose your tyre pressure based on comfort, you will need to run the Almotion at a lower pressure than the Hyper, because it is less supple. Once you do that, it no longer has a Crr benefit.

Which still leaves you with a better puncture resistance I suppose, but that is what you might expect from a tyre that is so much heavier in the tread, isn't it?

cheers

How did you deduce the Almotion is less supple, how can such a significantly heavier tyre have a better Crr than one that is what 200g+ lighter? The tread compounds can have an impact but they can't be that much different and when you then add in that there's a heck of a lot more meat/puncture resistance I'm a bit confused how that equates to being less supple or where the manufacturer is able to get the Crr so low/lower compared to what was/is deemed to the best tyre on the market, where does all that advantage come from to overcome the downsides, in most instances that is the suppleness of the casing is it not?

In any case at lower pressures the Almotion has a significantly better Crr, at 30psi it knocks spots off the Hyper, even at 45psi it's already 9% faster so I don't think having to run it at a lower pressure to supposedly equalise the comfort factor will make it much slowerif at all but still have all the upsides aside from the weight at the rim which is something I'll have to live with, I also think the tread pattern would be suited more to off road riding than the hyper.

[Brucey]

It is a very good result to get such a low Crr from a tyre with a thick tread for sure. This test is of that tyre, isn't it?

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/schwalbe-marathon-almotion-2016

It mentions that the almotion is stiffer (because of the puncture protection) and estimates that to get the same comfort the almotion should be run about 10-15psi lower pressure vs the Hyper. The Crr data suggests that if you do this, the almotion will be slower than the Hyper.

It is very impressive for a puncture resistant tyre though. BTW it looks like SJS have them in the 50mm width.

cheers

[The utility cyclist]

It is a very good result to get such a low Crr from a tyre with a thick tread for sure. This test is of that tyre, isn't it?

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/schwalbe-marathon-almotion-2016

It mentions that the almotion is stiffer (because of the puncture protection) and estimates that to get the same comfort the almotion should be run about 10-15psi lower pressure vs the Hyper. The Crr data suggests that if you do this, the almotion will be slower than the Hyper.

It is very impressive for a puncture resistant tyre though. BTW it looks like SJS have them in the 50mm width.

cheers

Yeah, as I said further upthread I can't get the 50s in otherwise I probably would have just got those.
The reviewer makes an assumption that the Almotion is a stiffer tyre because of the extra layer but is this accurate, how did he measure this 'stiffness' factor? If the tyre is as fast but has more meat then where is this speed/low Crr coming from. Suppleness of the casing is more likely to be a significant factor IMHO so I don't think saying the tyre is stiffer is really accurate and the lowering of the pressures to achieve same comfort levels is purely guesswork.

[pete75]

Er, I'm not after the Hyper

It does say Hyper in big letters on the topic title.
You can't expect everyone to actually read your actual post

Er, you can actually and the title does not say I'm looking for a Vitt hyper, it says the tyre I'm looking for is better than the hyper!

Eh? Where does it say that?

[The utility cyclist]

It does say Hyper in big letters on the topic title.
You can't expect everyone to actually read your actual post

Er, you can actually and the title does not say I'm looking for a Vitt hyper, it says the tyre I'm looking for is better than the hyper!

Eh? Where does it say that?

1st sentence
"come to the conclusion that I want a Schwalbe Marathon Almotion 700x38. 622-40c."
maybe people need to actually bother to read what's being asked before chipping in, that way it might actually be helpful and not clog a thread with useless posts.

[pete75]

Er, you can actually and the title does not say I'm looking for a Vitt hyper, it says the tyre I'm looking for is better than the hyper!

Eh? Where does it say that?

1st sentence
"come to the conclusion that I want a Schwalbe Marathon Almotion 700x38. 622-40c."
maybe people need to actually bother to read what's being asked before chipping in, that way it might actually be helpful and not clog a thread with useless posts.

Perhaps if you had tried to be accurate in your heading and mentioned the type of tyre you're after something on the lines of "Where can I find an out of production tyre - Schwalbe Marathon Almotion" it might have been helpful. To use the heading to mention completely different tyre to the one you're after is more than a little silly.

[Brucey]

.... so I don't think saying the tyre is stiffer is really accurate and the lowering of the pressures to achieve same comfort levels is purely guesswork.

if it is guesswork it is at least informed guesswork. I'd be interested to hear what you think when you try them out back to back.

cheers

[andrew_s]

To use the heading to mention completely different tyre to the one you're after is more than a little silly.

That was the point I failed to make.
If it says "Hyper" in the topic title, you are bound to get people posting about Hypers.
I'm mildly surprised there's only been one (so far).

[The utility cyclist]

.... so I don't think saying the tyre is stiffer is really accurate and the lowering of the pressures to achieve same comfort levels is purely guesswork.

if it is guesswork it is at least informed guesswork. I'd be interested to hear what you think when you try them out back to back.

cheers

I don't use hypers, I've purchased what I think will be a faster lightweight (and wide) tarmac tyre, the Almotion is really going to be for off road duties.

As for the confusion as to what tyre I'm after, the title clearly says "out of production tyre" clearly that's not the Hyper, this is well known, even if you didn't the title also says that the tyre I'm looking for (IMO) beats the Hyper hence "Hyper killer", further, and if any doubt the very first sentence states precisely what I'm looking for. Anyone who misunderstands that simply can't process basic English language or can't be buttocked to read. I would expect at the bare minimum and as a courtesy before considering to give some 'advice' to read the first sentence of a post and maybe even grasp what it means with respect to the question asked, is that actually too much to ask for?

[goatwarden]

I don't use hypers, I've purchased what I think will be a faster lightweight (and wide) tarmac tyre, the Almotion is really going to be for off road duties.

As for the confusion as to what tyre I'm after, the title clearly says "out of production tyre" clearly that's not the Hyper, this is well known, even if you didn't the title also says that the tyre I'm looking for (IMO) beats the Hyper hence "Hyper killer", further, and if any doubt the very first sentence states precisely what I'm looking for. Anyone who misunderstands that simply can't process basic English language or can't be buttocked to read. I would expect at the bare minimum and as a courtesy before considering to give some 'advice' to read the first sentence of a post and maybe even grasp what it means with respect to the question asked, is that actually too much to ask for?

Unfortunately, rather than simly accept the collective opinion of a wide audience you persist in insisting your presentation was perfect in the first place.

In the hope of convincing you to stop digging since the hole is already too deep, I would point out two things:
1. When I read the title of the thread I thought you were looking for a tyre called a "Vittoria Hyper killer" which I was not surprised to learn was out of production since I had never heard of it.
2. you state yourself "I don't use hypers", so how do you know that the tyres you are looking for are better? Also do better things always "kill" less good alternatives, or are they simply a barely perceptible bit nicer to use?

[PH]

Unfortunately, rather than simly accept the collective opinion of a wide audience

Enough please. Some people are opening this thread expecting to see something on the subject matter, rather than a petty squabble about the interpretation of the heading.