Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Sweep
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Sweep »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 7:52am
Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 10:20am Asking for personal experiences is very valid. Sweep isn't asking what the regulations are, but how they have been applied by a particular seller. Of course a lot also depends on the particular customs officer (if any) handling it. There have been instances of sellers charging VAT for both countries or for neither, of duties being charged where they shouldn't and (more commonly so far) of no checks whatsoever.
I think that it's helpful to know what's happening in individual cases.

AIUI there are several changes that haven't yet been implemented, such as the documentation for imported goods, and the introduction of UK-specific product marking. So the value of sharing experiences will continue for some time.

Jonathan

thank you jdsk
I thought my question entirely fair.
And it was of course nicely and politely answered by redvee in a spirit of sharing info.
Other experiences welcome.
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Bmblbzzz »

PH wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 7:55pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 6:40pm
PH wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 11:17am Purchases under £135 from the EU can only be handled one way, they won't arrive otherwise. Asking if there's been any additional VAT or custom charges only has one answer. There is no process for any other charges to be applied.
Not in practice. Neither the PO nor HMRC have the resources to check every single parcel.
I don't know what that's an answer to?
Here's the original question
Sweep wrote: 13 Sep 2021, 12:32pm [Can you clarify - any customs, extra VAT or VAT handling charges payable by you after the order made?
Have you a scenario where the answer to that would be anything other than no?
I was pointing out that the process is one thing, what actually happens is sometimes another.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by PH »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 11:35am I was pointing out that the process is one thing, what actually happens is sometimes another.
Fair enough, though that wasn't the question.
The question was if the purchaser might have had to pay extra charges or taxes and the answer remains no.
Bear in mind that the idea of making the retailer wholly responsible for collection VAT on small orders comes from the EU, though they delayed the implementation, it's primary objective seems to have been to stem the flood of untaxed goods arriving form elsewhere, the UK has followed suit. There is no need for anyone to be foggy on how it works, it's crystal clear:
https://thegermanyeye.com/e-commerce-%3 ... -over-4258

Of course Brexit has made everything more complicated, but for the consumer that complication for goods under £135 is the sole responsibility of the retailer. The consumer's issue is finding retailers who have decided to take that on. For consignments over £135, there are also ways for the retailer to assume that responsibility, but technically if you're supplied from outside the UK, you're responsible for the VAT and any import tax.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by PH »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 7:52am AIUI there are several changes that haven't yet been implemented, such as the documentation for imported goods, and the introduction of UK-specific product marking. So the value of sharing experiences will continue for some time.

Jonathan
The UKCA marking isn't due for implementation till 2023, so it'll be a while before anyone has any experience to share about that. I don't know of any intended documentation for imported goods of the value under discussion here, would you care to elaborate?
I didn't suggest no one should ever ask another question, I merely pointed out that there could only be one answer to the one asked.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Syd »

I spent a couple of hours last night finding replacement headset bearings for one of Mrs Syd’s bikes.

My search wasn’t limited to just bike suppliers but took in a lot of bearings companies too. A high % of sites I visited has prominent notices on their homepage about restrictions in their supply of parts either to, or from, EU countries.

There’s little sign of things improving.
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Sweep
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Sweep »

PH wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 8:54pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 11:35am I was pointing out that the process is one thing, what actually happens is sometimes another.
Fair enough, though that wasn't the question.
It was exactly my question actually.
There's rules and regs and then, potentially, cock-ups, screw-ups.
Most of us have faced such situations in life.

I'd rather not have to unentangle the consequences.

But Mantel seem like a good bet - never used them though I did almost buy some Ortliebs from them a while ago.

Unfortunately I see little chance of Rose changing their position - have always struck me as well run and organised - they appear to have made their decision and are sticking to it. Every right to do of course.

Keep the euro suppliers coming folks.
Last edited by Sweep on 17 Sep 2021, 8:52am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by PH »

Sweep wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 8:38am It was exactly my question actually.
Here is your question
Can you clarify - any customs, extra VAT or VAT handling charges payable by you after the order made?
The answer to that can only be no. This is because those charges are solely the liability of the retailer. These are the regulations, which I carefully explained.
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Sweep
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Sweep »

PH wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 8:44am
Sweep wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 8:38am It was exactly my question actually.
Here is your question
Can you clarify - any customs, extra VAT or VAT handling charges payable by you after the order made?
The answer to that can only be no. This is because those charges are solely the liability of the retailer. These are the regulations, which I carefully explained.
Have a nice day.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Those are the regulations. The regulations are not always what happens.

It's quite possible that some sellers don't understand the rules, or deliberately ignore them, so sell you something without making the relevant payment for VAT to HMRC. This might then be picked up when the parcel arrives in UK – or might not. If you buy from a reasonably well known seller, which Mantel appear to be, or from a platform such as Ebay or Alibaba, there's much less chance of them not following the regulations, but it's possible.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by PH »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 8:50am Those are the regulations. The regulations are not always what happens.

It's quite possible that some sellers don't understand the rules, or deliberately ignore them, so sell you something without making the relevant payment for VAT to HMRC. This might then be picked up when the parcel arrives in UK – or might not. If you buy from a reasonably well known seller, which Mantel appear to be, or from a platform such as Ebay or Alibaba, there's much less chance of them not following the regulations, but it's possible.
Then what do you think happens?
Under the current regulations, it's for the retailer to sort out. There is no process where the consumer becomes liable for those taxes. The retailer will also be liable for any costs incurred, you'll see that the third party vendors also have a liability, Amazon, Ebay... both have changed their processes to reduce the chance of that happening.
Under the old system, something arriving at your door may or may not have had the VAT paid and could come with a bill. It was then between the retailer and consumer to sort out. It was often more trouble than it was worth and went uncollected. This is what the EU regulation (Which the UK have adopted) is intended to stop, it's now very clear who is liable, under £135 the retailer, over £135 the consumer. Which I think is where I came in :roll:
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by pete75 »

PH wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 9:06am
Bmblbzzz wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 8:50am Those are the regulations. The regulations are not always what happens.

It's quite possible that some sellers don't understand the rules, or deliberately ignore them, so sell you something without making the relevant payment for VAT to HMRC. This might then be picked up when the parcel arrives in UK – or might not. If you buy from a reasonably well known seller, which Mantel appear to be, or from a platform such as Ebay or Alibaba, there's much less chance of them not following the regulations, but it's possible.
Then what do you think happens?
Under the current regulations, it's for the retailer to sort out. There is no process where the consumer becomes liable for those taxes. The retailer will also be liable for any costs incurred, you'll see that the third party vendors also have a liability, Amazon, Ebay... both have changed their processes to reduce the chance of that happening.
Under the old system, something arriving at your door may or may not have had the VAT paid and could come with a bill. It was then between the retailer and consumer to sort out. It was often more trouble than it was worth and went uncollected. This is what the EU regulation (Which the UK have adopted) is intended to stop, it's now very clear who is liable, under £135 the retailer, over £135 the consumer. Which I think is where I came in :roll:
Currently there are no checks whatsoever on goods coming into the UK and the government have recently said they will extend the no check period https://www.ft.com/content/e32dda1b-7db ... 80604df431 . Many of the facilities needed at ports haven't been built yet.
I've recently bought a new outboard, tiller pilot and some motorcycle parts from Germany. In each case the German retailer charged a VAT free price as the items were leaving the EU. All arrived here with no UK VAT or customs charges of any kind.

Under the old system it was generally the carrier that handled and collected any customs charges and/or VAT for liable goods. They only did this if it had been checked by customs and a charge levied. Some , like the Royal Mail, won't deliver until the charges have been paid. Others delivered and then sent an invoice. This system seems to still be in place for stuff from the USA. My wife bought a new coat from there last month and ended up paying almost £325 in VAT and import duties. It still cost about 20% less than buying it here.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by PH »

pete75 wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 10:09am In each case the German retailer charged a VAT free price as the items were leaving the EU. All arrived here with no UK VAT or customs charges of any kind.
Thank you, so the answer to Sweep's question is still no.
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by RickH »

Under £135 order value there is very little that can go wrong from the consumer point of view. Over £135, which isn't hard to get to with bike bits, there is much more scope to get wrongly double charged VAT.

In An earlier post...
Jdsk wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 8:33am The Bikester FAQs were updated in the middle of August:
https://www.bikester.co.uk/brexit-faqs.html

Jonathan
... there is a link to Bikester's FAQs. They don't distinguish between orders over & under £135. Now they probably have measures in place where they (or someone on their behalf) do the importing & VAT, simply passing the additional costs to you. But it isn't specific. They just say "... you won't have any import duty or extra taxes to pay. Regardless of whether you're in the UK mainland, Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland, Bikester covers all import fees and taxes to deliver your order."

The other gotcha seems to be the situation with Bike24. They've gone from saying they were unable to deliver to the UK to saying they now can but there may be slight delays. However, I've yet to find an item that doesn't say "Product not shippable to Great Britain (excluding Northern Ireland)."!
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by Jdsk »

RickH wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 10:30amThe other gotcha seems to be the situation with Bike24. They've gone from saying they were unable to deliver to the UK to saying they now can but there may be slight delays. However, I've yet to find an item that doesn't say "Product not shippable to Great Britain (excluding Northern Ireland)."!
Thanks.

Their banner now says:
COVID-19: Delivery time3 6 to 11 working days to Great Britain (excluding Northern Ireland)

That 3 looks like a link but I can't get it to do anything. I think that the Northern Ireland reference probably means no unusual delay. (And of course GB ≠ UK.)

But I can't see anything about GB in their shipping charges, although it does include NI:
https://www.bike24.com/shipping.html

Did you find anything relevant?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Re: Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

Post by pete75 »

PH wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 10:17am
pete75 wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 10:09am In each case the German retailer charged a VAT free price as the items were leaving the EU. All arrived here with no UK VAT or customs charges of any kind.
Thank you, so the answer to Sweep's question is still no.
Some items were under £135 in others over. No VAT was levied on any item.
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