UK better than France for cycling?

[ANTONISH]

I've been looking at a Belgian cycling magazine which makes reference to " le Barometre 2015 de la federation europeene des cyclistes " (apologies for the missing accents).
This ranks countries - best to worst - not surprisingly Denmark comes first followed by Holland- followed by Sweden, finland, Germany and Belgium.
What surprised me was that the UK - 11th was above France - 12th.
The Criteria were - the percentage of the population normally using a bicycle as their main means of transport, safety, the importance of cycle tourism, the sale of new bicycles and the presence of pro cycling activists.
I don't know how these criteria are weighted - I generally find that the experience of cycling in France is better than the UK and although Belgium has more cycling facilities I've not noticed a great difference when riding randonees in the North of France and Belgium - the routes often criss cross the border.

[Ray]

It seems this 'research' originated with 'la Fédération Européenne des Cyclistes' which appears to represent business interests, and might be said to have different criteria from us (i.e. visiting British touring cyclists).

I don't claim any special knowledge about this, but here's the English version of their website -http://www.ecf.com/industry/why-join/

Judge for yourself.

[bigjim]

I've never noticed the French being a big cycling nation. They do love their cars and driving. I think they see cycling as a sport rather than a means of transport. It's noticable when touring in France how few bike shops there are. I think we are better served in the UK in that respect. Germany on the other hand, IME, has a huge cycling utility culture.

[al_yrpal]

France? 200+ branches of Decathlon each selling all sorts of bikes, clothing and accessories. I have even seen under cover CRS riding Decathlon bikes at the Deaville film festival. You dont see French cycle tourists but on weekends plenty of clubs out just like here. Its a big country double the size of the UK with a similar population. The cyclists are less densely distributed.

Cyclists are regarded as heros in France unlike here where we are seen as a nuisance.

Al

[Psamathe]

France? 200+ branches of Decathlon each selling all sorts of bikes, clothing and accessories. I have even seen under cover CRS riding Decathlon bikes at the Deaville film festival. You dont see French cycle tourists but on weekends plenty of clubs out just like here. Its a big country double the size of the UK with a similar population. The cyclists are less densely distributed.

Cyclists are regarded as heros in France unlike here where we are seen as a nuisance.

Al

When I lived there, nearby supermarket (E.Leclerc) carried a lot of cycling gear; not new bikes but a good range of tyres, gear, tools, accessories, etc. Same town had a decent cycle shop (plus cities each had one (or more) Decathelon's).

Ian

[bigjim]

Well I must have been touring a different France than you lot. Yes of course Decathlon, but a bike shop to me is an LBS. I found them very few on the ground in small towns. I once lost a rear mech on the west coast. I rode the rest of the tour in one gear thanks to the inability to come across an LBS. I eventually found one in a supermarket in Biarritz but that was the end point of the tour.
On another tour I was in Beziers with a broken crank. Beziers is a big town. There was no LBS! Lots of moped/scooter shops. I had to scoot the bike 3 miles in the rain to Decathlon and buy a complete crankset.
France is of course in love with the Sports bike but not IMO the utility.

[al_yrpal]

I have seen three LBSs in Brittany. They were all pretty basic, not well stocked and obviously quite old. I surmise its pretty difficult to run a profitable LBS in the face of Decathlon and the other supermarket/shed type operations.

As for the cycling, the back roads are quieter, better surfaced, drivers are more careful about cyclists and one often gets smiles, thumbs up and in my case "allez allez" indicating that the French like cyclists.

France is a much better place to cycle. The only blot on the landscape is the amount of cobbles in towns.

Al

[pwa]

I did a tour of about 350 miles in Provence this summer, and from that I have the following impressions.

1) Lots of beautiful quiet country roads and great scenery, making for some great cycling
2) Drivers generally careful to give you room
3) Drivers moving at insane speed
4) No bike shops seen in the towns (though it is easy to miss them here too)
5) Fewer local cyclists than we get on the roads at weekends here in the Vale of Glamorgan
6) Plenty of non-French cyclists

[Audax67]

Bike shops used to be a lot more common than now, but like most other specialist shops they've been driven out of business by mail order, Decathlon etc., local taxes and crippling social security contributions. Of those that survive, about half make a good percentage of their turnover on motor-scooters. The pure cycling shops tend to be very good, but are usually run by ex-competition riders who will carry utility and electric machines but only know racing bikes really well. Touring and even Audax bikes are unknown territory - back when I took a SON hub to my usual LBS to be built into a wheel the owner was worried about the "rough" bearings.

[Samuel D]

Vélocio’s spirit lives on, but mostly not in France.

It’s a nice place to ride a bicycle, though.

In the Paris region there are many cyclists of all types and ages, from commuters to road racers. However, in the Alps I mostly see older cyclists, usually men, on high-end road bikes. That seems to be what cycling means there.

I’ve just read Paul Fournel’s ‘Need for the Bike’, which makes a good case for that kind of cycling. I have nothing against it. But it’s a shame there aren’t more young people, women, and alternative bicycle types outside the cities.

[Vorpal]

To me one of the things that makes the biggest difference between cycling in the UK and France is mainly down to three things:
-numbers of drivers behaving aggressively
-traffic density
-speed limits

The two are abviously related. Cycling on country lanes is generally a pleasant experience in most countries, and IMO, the UK doesn't differ much from other places in terms of traffic interactions when traffic density is low. There may be slightly more aggressive drivers, even in rural areas, but IMO, a person has to cycle quite a bit to notice a difference between the UK and other countries in most rural areas.

On busy roads, though, is another matter. Agressive driving, traffic density, and the highest speed limits in Europe combine to make a road environment that is noticeably more intimidating than in most other European countries.

I still enjoy cycling the UK, and I think it's better than many other countries, all things considered. And I can understand the ECF's conclusion. IMO, the ECF is an organisation that should understand and include things like speed limits and traffic density.

[Psamathe]

To me one of the things that makes the biggest difference between cycling in the UK and France is mainly down to three things:
-numbers of drivers behaving aggressively
-traffic density
-speed limits

The two are abviously related. Cycling on country lanes is generally a pleasant experience in most countries, and IMO, the UK doesn't differ much from other places in terms of traffic interactions when traffic density is low. There may be slightly more aggressive drivers, even in rural areas, but IMO, a person has to cycle quite a bit to notice a difference between the UK and other countries in most rural areas.

On busy roads, though, is another matter. Agressive driving, traffic density, and the highest speed limits in Europe combine to make a road environment that is noticeably more intimidating than in most other European countries.

I still enjoy cycling the UK, and I think it's better than many other countries, all things considered. And I can understand the ECF's conclusion. IMO, the ECF is an organisation that should understand and include things like speed limits and traffic density.

When I lived in France, in e.g. villages where those chicane things (often giant plant tubs blocking one lane) were used a lot, always if two cars were approaching, the one who would have to pull across to the other lane would wait. In the UK it's about accelerating to see if you can get your bonnet in before the other vehicle. This summed up the difference I found between French drivers and UK drivers.

Ian

[Audax67]

Vélocio’s spirit lives on, but mostly not in France.

It’s a nice place to ride a bicycle, though.

In the Paris region there are many cyclists of all types and ages, from commuters to road racers. However, in the Alps I mostly see older cyclists, usually men, on high-end road bikes. That seems to be what cycling means there.

I’ve just read Paul Fournel’s ‘Need for the Bike’, which makes a good case for that kind of cycling. I have nothing against it. But it’s a shame there aren’t more young people, women, and alternative bicycle types outside the cities.

There's a reason for that: the older you get the more benefit you get from a lighter bike, and the lighter you want the higher the end. And we old coots have more time to tempt doom on the slopes.

[bikepacker]

Having just toured seven countries in Europe, I tend to agree with some of the findings. Over the last 17 years of touring France I have seen a deterioration in driving standards and lack of respect for cyclists. This year was the first time my wife had toured France since 2010 and she was appalled by the aggressive driving we encountered.

Out of the seven countries we visited I would rate Germany as being the most respectful to cyclists. Followed in this order; Belgium, Switzerland, Luxemburg, France and worst of all Andorra. I exclude Spain because we only cycled a small section in the Pyrenees but on previous tours there I have never had a problem.

[pwa]

Having just toured seven countries in Europe, I tend to agree with some of the findings. Over the last 17 years of touring France I have seen a deterioration in driving standards and lack of respect for cyclists. This year was the first time my wife had toured France since 2010 and she was appalled by the aggressive driving we encountered.

Out of the seven countries we visited I would rate Germany as being the most respectful to cyclists. Followed in this order; Belgium, Switzerland, Luxemburg, France and worst of all Andorra. I exclude Spain because we only cycled a small section in the Pyrenees but on previous tours there I have never had a problem.

You obviously didn't meet my sister-in-law in Germany!