...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Bicycler
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Bicycler » 26 Nov 2015, 9:45am

beardy wrote:
The refugee/migrant thing is a distraction here
To you it may be as you have clearly already made up your mind about the subject. Others may still be thinking it over.

Regardless of the merits of either term, the distinction is not relevant to the OP's questions.

pwa
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby pwa » 26 Nov 2015, 9:58am

beardy wrote:
The refugee/migrant thing is a distraction here
To you it may be as you have clearly already made up your mind about the subject. Others may still be thinking it over.

At this moment people are cancelling holidays to Paris and Brussels because of fears about very improbable scenarios. If you have been watching the media with half an eye, you will have swallowed all the innuendos and think it is as besieged as Syria.
How many people here went on holiday in NI during the troubles? I did, even as an ex-squaddie, and I had a great holiday with no problems. Very few of us have a true perception of what the reality is of the things that we see on the news and there is nothing better than asking people who have actually been.


Going slightly Off Topic (apologies) the recent events in Paris have made me consider making a point of visiting the city next year. And when you analyse it rationally, even when the terrorist acts were taking place most inhabitants of the city were safe. The victims were the unlucky few. If we get the risk into proportion the terrorists will have lost some of their impact.

And who is to say that Paris will continue to be the focus for supporters of ISIL? London might well be the next target. We should just carry on as normal, perhaps with a few precautions.

beardy
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby beardy » 26 Nov 2015, 10:07am

Bicycler wrote:
beardy wrote:
The refugee/migrant thing is a distraction here
To you it may be as you have clearly already made up your mind about the subject. Others may still be thinking it over.

Regardless of the merits of either term, the distinction is not relevant to the OP's questions.

You have clearly made up your mind on this subject, others may not agree with you.

This gainsaying of each others opinion could easily carry on for ever. :lol:

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NUKe
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby NUKe » 26 Nov 2015, 10:12am

Looks like the migrants have already had a positive effect on cycle touring
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34612325
NUKe
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DaveP
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby DaveP » 26 Nov 2015, 10:15am

Enjoy your break reohn2, and come back when you're ready.

Personally I can empathise with the original question. We hear about borders being closed. We hear about crowds of desperate people climbing fences and, occasionally, tussling with border guards. I don't think it at all surprising that someone should be concerned about possible consequences for travelling cyclists. Arrive at the wrong crossing point on the wrong day and you could be faced, it appears, by the prospect of having to cycle away between crowds of waiting migrants. Without casting aspersions on their general moral character I think its fair to say that they are, in varying degrees, desperate, and they will all be aware that this single, slow moving cyclist is carrying the necessary documents...
Wouldn't fancy it myself. I suspect the only real solution is to choose your border crossings carefully, keep your ear to the ground, and have plan B to hand.
Perhaps it would be better to ask a more specific question, one that actually occurred to me while on board Bike Express earlier this year.
What's it like arriving at Calais as a foot passenger (with bike of course!)?
My reason for asking is that the only access to the ferry terminal that I could see when looking around was main roads through empty grassland with no pavement or cycle lane and a heavy population of coaches and articulated lorries. Not to mention lots of fencing, and of course, at least one of the migrant camps. I would have felt very exposed and very vulnerable being there on a bike.
So, if I fancied popping over for a long weekend, is there a more palatable route?
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!

Bicycler
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Bicycler » 26 Nov 2015, 10:22am

beardy wrote:
Bicycler wrote:Regardless of the merits of either term, the distinction is not relevant to the OP's questions.
You have clearly made up your mind on this subject, others may not agree with you.
This gainsaying of each others opinion could easily carry on for ever. :lol:

Agreed; repetition wasn't my intention. I thought you were continuing a thread drift. Are you saying that whether we choose to use the term refugee or migrant to describe these people is relevant in answering the OP?

beardy
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby beardy » 26 Nov 2015, 10:25am

No, I am saying that if they are migrants or refugees may change the nature of the people.
There are also stories of (British) criminal people smugglers working within the camps who we may have reason to be worried about.

Bicycler
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Bicycler » 26 Nov 2015, 10:57am

All are migrants by definition. Some are refugees. The proportion of refugees is unknown and we are unlikely to find out in time to advise the OP. For the purpose of answering his questions the terms are merely a matter of personal preference; we are referring to the same group of people using the same limited knowledge.

Incidentally I'm not sure this refugees = good, other migrants = bad idea is necessarily helpful. All refugee status implies is a legal entitlement to asylum. There are none of us who do not act on economic grounds and there are few of us who would not seize the opportunity of a lifetime if presented to us and we had comparatively little to lose. When lots of others are doing likewise and no harm is apparent, it might not seem an immoral thing. The Rwandan genocide reminds us that being a refugee is no indication of morality.

Bicycler
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Bicycler » 26 Nov 2015, 12:11pm

DaveP wrote:Enjoy your break reohn2, and come back when you're ready.

+1
All the best John.

manybikes
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby manybikes » 27 Nov 2015, 7:47am

Well I am going to raise my head above the parapet here and wait for it to be shut off.

Numerous respondents assume that the impact that the original OP fears is upon himself BY migrants. However we have been told by the media that certain states have arbitrarily shut borders or main railway stations at very short notice in reaction to the presence of these extra people. We've also seen pictures of potentially overreaction with tear gas deployed and crushing.

What is so wrong about wanting to avoid getting caught up in such situations? Loosing ones flight or train home due to hold ups is silly if due to not taking reasonable precautions and seeking advice.

Take Eurovelo 6 for instance. This passes through Romania, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary and more. Tensions are already high in some of these states.

Instead of responding positively to a request for advice made logically to the best repository of experience some members have chosen to air their views and prejudices on politics, read the elements of the question selectively, and commented in sarcastic or plain rude ways.

To those who displayed empathy and provided positive advice thank you because that is the heritage of this forum

Edwards
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Edwards » 27 Nov 2015, 8:36am

manybikes wrote:Well I am going to raise my head above the parapet here and wait for it to be shut off.

Numerous respondents assume that the impact that the original OP fears is upon himself BY migrants. However we have been told by the media that certain states have arbitrarily shut borders or main railway stations at very short notice in reaction to the presence of these extra people. We've also seen pictures of potentially overreaction with tear gas deployed and crushing.

What is so wrong about wanting to avoid getting caught up in such situations? Loosing ones flight or train home due to hold ups is silly if due to not taking reasonable precautions and seeking advice.

Take Eurovelo 6 for instance. This passes through Romania, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary and more. Tensions are already high in some of these states.

Instead of responding positively to a request for advice made logically to the best repository of experience some members have chosen to air their views and prejudices on politics, read the elements of the question selectively, and commented in sarcastic or plain rude ways.
To those who displayed empathy and provided positive advice thank you because that is the heritage of this forum



The only places you will find any effect caused my the large numbers of Displaced People is, Calais and the Eastern Borders of mostly
Slovakian countries. So you will not find Tear Gas or any of those other things in Western Europe caused by the large numbers of Displaced People.
So if you cycle trip is from Austria east then you may have a problem, I nearly forgot to mention the cycle tourist destination of the Greek Islands as well.

You will however find other problems caused by Terrorist acts. As my best friend said you do not want to be discussing you plans with the French CRS.

So the original question was not that clear as to where and what information was needed. To get a feeling of why this thread turned out the way it did you would need to read the Tea Shop threads about terrorists and movement of people, noting the persons involved and who was trying to get a reaction from others.
Be warned you will want to abandon this forum if you do read any of that stuff.
Keith Edwards
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Whippet
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Whippet » 27 Nov 2015, 2:31pm

There was no impact on our 3 week French motorhome holiday this year, other than we decided not to stop anywhere near Calais. The rest of France was no different.

Ben@Forest
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Ben@Forest » 27 Nov 2015, 5:34pm

Audax67 wrote:Be aware though that cycling through Montpellier always has carried the danger of the odd flying half-brick. Most of the routes taken by diagonalistes give it a wide berth by the south...


Why? I only ask because I have cycled through Montpellier.

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DaveP
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby DaveP » 27 Nov 2015, 7:07pm

Edwards wrote:To get a feeling of why this thread turned out the way it did you would need to read the Tea Shop threads about terrorists and movement of people, noting the persons involved and who was trying to get a reaction from others.
Be warned you will want to abandon this forum if you do read any of that stuff.


Thank you for that perspective, and especially thanks for the cautionary note.
I felt, sight unseen, that the terrorist thread was likely to end up as a bit of a squabble and decided to give it a miss.
Now I'm definitely going to leave it alone!

I agree with manybikes. The OP has not been well treated.
I know that the media generally sensationalise current affairs but its quite clear that unwelcome things are happening in our patch. I don't think it unreasonableto want to discuss any concerns that might be raised.
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!

Tacascarow
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Re: ...what effect might migrants have on cycle touring

Postby Tacascarow » 27 Nov 2015, 7:49pm

manybikes wrote:Well I am going to raise my head above the parapet here and wait for it to be shut off.

Numerous respondents assume that the impact that the original OP fears is upon himself BY migrants. However we have been told by the media that certain states have arbitrarily shut borders or main railway stations at very short notice in reaction to the presence of these extra people. We've also seen pictures of potentially overreaction with tear gas deployed and crushing.

What is so wrong about wanting to avoid getting caught up in such situations? Loosing ones flight or train home due to hold ups is silly if due to not taking reasonable precautions and seeking advice.

Take Eurovelo 6 for instance. This passes through Romania, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary and more. Tensions are already high in some of these states.

Instead of responding positively to a request for advice made logically to the best repository of experience some members have chosen to air their views and prejudices on politics, read the elements of the question selectively, and commented in sarcastic or plain rude ways.

To those who displayed empathy and provided positive advice thank you because that is the heritage of this forum

The question put was 'What affects might migrants have on cycle touring'. Not what affects might the migrant (refugee) crisis have on cycle touring.
It was referring to migrants directly, specifically.
As I said earlier choice of words is important, especially the written word & especially when discussing a very emotive subject such as this.
Over half a million people have died in, or escaping from Syria & a lot of the ones that aren't Syrian are from areas nearly as badly disrupted like the Yemen, Libya, Somalia, Nigeria. Only yesterday a British made missile was used against a factory in the Yemen killing many innocents.
Asking if migrants might affect your holiday reads as a little crass & uncaring to me, although that could well be a misinterpretation.