Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 8:15am

reohn2 wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The 60cm size Olive(love it! :) ) has a 72 degree seatube angle,which should be OK for most folks,but the 58cm=73 deg,57cm=74deg,56cm=73.5deg :? (error?) 54&52cm=74deg,50&47=74.5deg,IMHO these are steep without need,the two smallest sizes could've been 26in wheels to account for a slacker ST without compromising reach.
The problems begin when you're either long thighed or like the saddle well behind the BB.With the limited adjustment rearward of Brooks saddles it gets to be a problem for more than a few people,and has been the subject of many a thread on here in the past.
Though thankfully the two seatposts I linked to in my previous post will solve the problem,though think if you bought a new car and was told you'd need a driving seat extra bracket of £100 so you could fit in it :?

Strangely I can't find any geometry figures on BJ's site,though there's a lot of info on colours and lugs :?


I've built up a bike using the Orange frameset version of this bike - Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe.

I'm not sure the frame is perfect for me, for the exact reason you've given, struggle to get a Brooks saddle far enough back.

Where did you get those figures for STA? I can't find any geometry anywhere.

Thanks

It's on Ridgeback's website for the Panarama just scroll down below sizing.


Thanks, but are you sure? I've been all over Ridgeback's websites, archives of old PDF catalogues from that period (which have the frameset, but not geometry), and so on. And can't find those figures.

I'm talking about the Panorama DELUXE (Olive or Burnt Orange Frameset), not the current Panorama.

The CURRENT figures are here, and don't actually include some of the frame sizes you mention. But the nearest to the 54cm you mention is now 53cm, and gives an STA of 73 deg. That's why I was wondering where you got the figures, as I'd like to look at the other parts of the geometry for Olive.

https://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bike/panorama

reohn2
Posts: 37925
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby reohn2 » 25 Mar 2020, 8:34am

Mikeymo
Scrolling down the Panarama page past the photos,'full specs','sizing' you come to geometry,you have have to alter the frame size in the little box,it's a default XS you have to click on it to get to the different sizes and geometrys.
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I cycle therefore I am.

mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 9:42am

reohn2 wrote:Mikeymo
Scrolling down the Panarama page past the photos,'full specs','sizing' you come to geometry,you have have to alter the frame size in the little box,it's a default XS you have to click on it to get to the different sizes and geometrys.


Yes, I know. I found that ages ago. I've searched the internet, Ridgeback's website, and archived catalogues.

I know you're only trying to help, but that doesn't give the figures you quoted for the PANORAMA DELUXE. With all due respect, could I ask you to do what you're suggesting, and look at the figures please. They aren't the same as the figures you quoted here:

reohn2 wrote::
The 60cm size Olive(love it! :) ) has a 72 degree seatube angle,which should be OK for most folks,but the 58cm=73 deg,57cm=74deg,56cm=73.5deg :? (error?) 54&52cm=74deg,50&47=74.5deg,IMHO these are steep without need,the two smallest sizes could've been 26in wheels to account for a slacker ST without compromising reach.
The problems begin when you're either long thighed or like the saddle well behind the BB.With the limited adjustment rearward of Brooks saddles it gets to be a problem for more than a few people,and has been the subject of many a thread on here in the past.
Though thankfully the two seatposts I linked to in my previous post will solve the problem,though think if you bought a new car and was told you'd need a driving seat extra bracket of £100 so you could fit in it :?

Strangely I can't find any geometry figures on BJ's site,though there's a lot of info on colours and lugs :?


The current Panorama range doesn't include a 54cm frame, for instance. All I'm asking is where you got your figures for "Olive" from, so that I can look at more geometry.

Thanks.

reohn2
Posts: 37925
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby reohn2 » 25 Mar 2020, 9:48am

mikeymo wrote:
The current Panorama range doesn't include a 54cm frame, for instance. All I'm asking is where you got your figures for "Olive" from, so that I can look at more geometry.

Thanks.

Sorry for the mix up,the post you're referring to was posted 4 years ago and so is of it's time and referring to Ridgeback's website and ranfpge then,which has changed since.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 9:51am

reohn2 wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
The current Panorama range doesn't include a 54cm frame, for instance. All I'm asking is where you got your figures for "Olive" from, so that I can look at more geometry.

Thanks.

Sorry for the mix up,the post you're referring to was posted 4 years ago and so is of it's time and referring to Ridgeback's website and ranfpge then,which has changed since.


Yes, I know that was an old post, that's why I was asking where you got your figures from. I thought you might have an extant source.

Interestingly, the STA for the CURRENT Panorama in the size I'm interested in is back to 73 deg, which by my calcs puts the saddle back about 12mm for my height. And is the same as the current Spa Wayfarer.

reohn2
Posts: 37925
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby reohn2 » 25 Mar 2020, 10:07am

mikeymo wrote:
Yes, I know that was an old post, that's why I was asking where you got your figures from. I thought you might have an extant source.

Interestingly, the STA for the CURRENT Panorama in the size I'm interested in is back to 73 deg, which by my calcs puts the saddle back about 12mm for my height. And is the same as the current Spa Wayfarer.


Sticking my neck out here but looking at the Wayarer's geometry table the seatube angles don't add up.The larger frames on their table have a steeper ST angle @73degs than the smaller frames @ 72degs which I feel sure is a misprint on Spa's website.
If I were interested in buying a Wayfarer I'd phone Spa and enquire,and draw their attention to the error
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

slowster
Posts: 1199
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby slowster » 25 Mar 2020, 10:14am

mikeymo wrote:Interestingly, the STA for the CURRENT Panorama in the size I'm interested in is back to 73 deg, which by my calcs puts the saddle back about 12mm for my height. And is the same as the current Spa Wayfarer.

If you are considering getting a Wayfarer and the STA is critical to you, I would point out that although on Spa's website it is listed as 73 degrees for the 54cm size, 531Colin stated here that the geometry for the 54cm is as follows:

531colin wrote:54 wayfarer
Head tube 170
Fork 400
Seat angle 72
Head angle 70.5
Offset 59
BB drop 57
chainstay 460
Long version, disc only
ETT 573
front centre 635
Short version, rim or disc
ETT 558
FC 620

mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 10:50am

slowster wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Interestingly, the STA for the CURRENT Panorama in the size I'm interested in is back to 73 deg, which by my calcs puts the saddle back about 12mm for my height. And is the same as the current Spa Wayfarer.

If you are considering getting a Wayfarer and the STA is critical to you, I would point out that although on Spa's website it is listed as 73 degrees for the 54cm size, 531Colin stated here that the geometry for the 54cm is as follows:

531colin wrote:54 wayfarer
Head tube 170
Fork 400
Seat angle 72
Head angle 70.5
Offset 59
BB drop 57
chainstay 460
Long version, disc only
ETT 573
front centre 635
Short version, rim or disc
ETT 558
FC 620


Thanks for the caveat. Yes, I'll check with Spa before buying. As it happens I'm only about 15 miles away. I would probably go and check out a demonstrator. I don't think my current frame is way out for me, so it may well be that a seat post with a longer layback (or a Selle Anatomica or similar) and maybe a shorter stem would be all that it takes. But there are a couple of things I like about the Wayfarer - namely 3 pairs of bottle bosses and the canti bosses, which, if the geometry is perfect, make it interesting.

mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 10:54am

reohn2 wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Yes, I know that was an old post, that's why I was asking where you got your figures from. I thought you might have an extant source.

Interestingly, the STA for the CURRENT Panorama in the size I'm interested in is back to 73 deg, which by my calcs puts the saddle back about 12mm for my height. And is the same as the current Spa Wayfarer.


Sticking my neck out here but looking at the Wayarer's geometry table the seatube angles don't add up.The larger frames on their table have a steeper ST angle @73degs than the smaller frames @ 72degs which I feel sure is a misprint on Spa's website.
If I were interested in buying a Wayfarer I'd phone Spa and enquire,and draw their attention to the error


Is it usually the other way round, smaller frames have steeper STA?

slowster
Posts: 1199
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby slowster » 25 Mar 2020, 12:38pm

mikeymo wrote: I'll check with Spa before buying.

I would be interested to know what the answer is, so please let us know what you find out.

If you do decide on the Spa and the STA is 72 degrees, then presumably you would not need as much layback as the Nitto S84 offers, about which you have another thread. In that event, you might want to consider one of these seatposts:

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SPHOGS/holdsworth-gran-sport-seatpost (currently £20 for the silver version, £15 for the black)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/jtek-seat-post-black-350-x-272-mm/ (black £30)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/jtek-seat-post-polished-350-x-272-mm/ (silver £22)

I think that these are all the same post with identical clamps, but rebadged for Planet X and SJS/J-Tek (although it looks like J-Tek might be doing some extra polishing of the silver post and maybe anodising the black one). The main difference is that the Planet X versions are 300mm, and the SJS/J-Tek versions 350mm.

reohn2
Posts: 37925
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby reohn2 » 25 Mar 2020, 1:30pm

mikeymo wrote:Is it usually the other way round, smaller frames have steeper STA?

Yes.
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I cycle therefore I am.

mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 1:43pm

reohn2 wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Is it usually the other way round, smaller frames have steeper STA?

Yes.


Thanks. This is all new to me, as this bike was the first I've ever built. Basically I bought it because it was knocked down in price. I think I paid £395 which for a Reynolds 853 frame is a good price. Now, whether I actually need an 853 frame and/or if it makes that much difference, is another question. And a very good question.

The other reason I bought it was because I also bought, the year before, a Ridgeback World Journey, which is their Alfine tourer. I liked it, but wasn't massively confident of the cantis, even after much adjustment, new blocks etc. Also felt that the Alfine isn't quite the range I would like. And at 56cm it felt a bit big. A fairly common comment on Ridgeback tourers is that they're a bit "long". At 5 foot 10 inches, with an 84 cm inseam, I'm sort of on the border of 54cm/56cm. So when I saw the 54 cm Panorama Deluxe for sale, it ticked all the boxes (well, apart from only having two bottle bosses and not extra canti bosses). And I worked on the commonly expressed theory that it's easier to make a slightly too small frame "bigger" than the opposite.

Anyways, I am, gradually, learning the finer points of bike geometry. I'm well placed in regards to Spa, it's a 15 minute drive, so hopefully I could get over there and have a better look at things.
Last edited by mikeymo on 25 Mar 2020, 1:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikeymo
Posts: 625
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby mikeymo » 25 Mar 2020, 1:44pm

slowster wrote:
mikeymo wrote: I'll check with Spa before buying.

I would be interested to know what the answer is, so please let us know what you find out.

If you do decide on the Spa and the STA is 72 degrees, then presumably you would not need as much layback as the Nitto S84 offers, about which you have another thread. In that event, you might want to consider one of these seatposts:

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SPHOGS/holdsworth-gran-sport-seatpost (currently £20 for the silver version, £15 for the black)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/jtek-seat-post-black-350-x-272-mm/ (black £30)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/jtek-seat-post-polished-350-x-272-mm/ (silver £22)

I think that these are all the same post with identical clamps, but rebadged for Planet X and SJS/J-Tek (although it looks like J-Tek might be doing some extra polishing of the silver post and maybe anodising the black one). The main difference is that the Planet X versions are 300mm, and the SJS/J-Tek versions 350mm.


By my calculations, with a saddle to BB distance of 74cm, each degree difference in STA moves the saddle back 12mm. So if my current one is 74 deg, and the Spa is 72 deg, that's 24 mm right there.

I'll let you know what I learn.

yostumpy
Posts: 676
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 6:56pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby yostumpy » 25 Mar 2020, 1:53pm

Alternatively bu a Spa Nidd saddle, (B17) the rails are longer,believe me, I have a 60cm Olive, with a Nitto SP72 jaguar twin bolt seat post, and I have about 15mm plus to go back if I wish.

pwa
Posts: 11705
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe

Postby pwa » 25 Mar 2020, 2:39pm

slowster wrote:
mikeymo wrote: I'll check with Spa before buying.

I would be interested to know what the answer is, so please let us know what you find out.

If you do decide on the Spa and the STA is 72 degrees, then presumably you would not need as much layback as the Nitto S84 offers, about which you have another thread. In that event, you might want to consider one of these seatposts:

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SPHOGS/holdsworth-gran-sport-seatpost (currently £20 for the silver version, £15 for the black)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/jtek-seat-post-black-350-x-272-mm/ (black £30)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/jtek-seat-post-polished-350-x-272-mm/ (silver £22)

I think that these are all the same post with identical clamps, but rebadged for Planet X and SJS/J-Tek (although it looks like J-Tek might be doing some extra polishing of the silver post and maybe anodising the black one). The main difference is that the Planet X versions are 300mm, and the SJS/J-Tek versions 350mm.

I have the polished JTek version on my Ti Spa Tourer and it looks a lot posher and more expensive than the price would have you expect.