How much would you pay for this

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
ukdodger
Posts: 2992
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 5:32pm
Location: Sunny Surrey

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby ukdodger » 17 Dec 2015, 11:28am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
And I didn't realise you had made the frame either, flippant too :oops:
Have you used lugs or is it just Brazing or Braze welding :?:


Just brazing with lugs. I'm tempted to try building lugless but chances are I'd need jigs and it's done with brass and involves a lot of filing. I like the look of lugs though.

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11396
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 17 Dec 2015, 11:37am

Hi,
8.2 + 0.82 = 9.02 Ilbs (9.03895) or 4.1 kgs :wink: Spot on.
Oh... head race included its that normal to quote with head race, I take as is.
Will cut up for a gander later soon................
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

Brucey
Posts: 37356
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby Brucey » 17 Dec 2015, 3:49pm

ukdodger wrote: Often wondered where the name 'Mixte' comes from. Is it french?


originally yes, but in American English it is most often pronounced more like 'mix-tee' . In the UK I've heard it pronounced a hundred different ways... any votes for the conventional UK pronunciation?

It's for a rather large lady so all the tubes are non butted. I was surprised at how much that increased the weight.


if you ever have to build another one for that job it might be worth looking at what the French call the 'sport' variant. This still has three sets of stays to the rear dropouts, but instead of twin laterals between the head tube and the seat tube, there is a single tube instead. Such frames can be almost as stiff in the front as a diamond frame, and somewhat more stiff in the rear. You can build this design in rather light DB tubing and it will likely be stiffer than a PG mixte that is 1-2lbs heavier.

Unisex.. I did test ride this around the Surrey hills and collected some haw haws from some kids in Dorking.

Interesting that there are a few frames out now on urban bikes which are something like compact geometry but with twin laterals; or another way of looking at it is that they are a mixte design but where the twin laterals are no longer straight but humped upwards. These look less like girl's bikes... but if painted pink with a basket on the front...hmmmm :wink:

FWIW nearly all frame designs where there are twin laterals in place of a standard top tube will (vs a diamond frame)

a) lack torsional rigidity and
b) have a pretty soft front end.

The latter point normally makes them appreciably more comfortable than other frame designs; the sensation is often described as a 'slightly floaty front end' or similar.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11396
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 17 Dec 2015, 3:56pm

Hi,
So why don't they build a floating frame for Tourers or is it that it would be to scary to ride with gear down a long steep hill :)
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

User avatar
hubgearfreak
Posts: 8210
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 4:14pm

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby hubgearfreak » 17 Dec 2015, 6:26pm

you've made made something unique, that will ride beautifully and last a lifetime. i'd say £1000+ is fair price for that.

if you'd used a pre-made frame+forks say from bob jackson ...£650 just for the frameset - off the peg.
so your total seems good value to me, it's nonsense to compare it to a taiwan factory made bike.

keep up the good work.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17913
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby Vorpal » 17 Dec 2015, 7:35pm

hubgearfreak wrote:keep up the good work.

+1

p.s. welcome back hubgearfreak :D
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 48202
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby Mick F » 17 Dec 2015, 7:49pm

Vorpal wrote:p.s. welcome back hubgearfreak :D
Hi Hubbers! :D
Mick F. Cornwall

ukdodger
Posts: 2992
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 5:32pm
Location: Sunny Surrey

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby ukdodger » 17 Dec 2015, 7:57pm

hubgearfreak wrote:you've made made something unique, that will ride beautifully and last a lifetime. i'd say £1000+ is fair price for that.

if you'd used a pre-made frame+forks say from bob jackson ...£650 just for the frameset - off the peg.
so your total seems good value to me, it's nonsense to compare it to a taiwan factory made bike.

keep up the good work.


Thanks Hub. It wont be the last. I'm hoping to be able to make them for my granddaughters. Problem with kids is they want bikes that are street 'cool'. So maybe when they're a little older.

User avatar
kylecycler
Posts: 672
Joined: 12 Aug 2013, 4:09pm
Location: Kyle, Ayrshire

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby kylecycler » 17 Dec 2015, 11:12pm

You couldn't put a price on that bicycle because a) you built it yourself, lovingly, for someone who is dear to you and b) it's unique. You couldn't convert that into money, and neither you should.

And I hope you know (well, you do now!) that you're a (should be proud) member of SOPWAMTOS - the Society of People Who Actually Make Their Own Sh!t, according to the great American framebuilder Bruce Gordon - you can even buy the T-shirt - you've earned it! :)

Bruce Gordon is (I think) the only surviving framebuilder who features in this wonderful book. Go to your bed and read it in the morning, otherwise you'll be up all night. :D

Tonyf33
Posts: 3926
Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby Tonyf33 » 18 Dec 2015, 6:32am

I prefer to take an existing frame/bike giving it a full strip down and clean and use as much from it as possible retaining it's character but moulding it to the recipient and their needs. Good second hand old style bikes are so abundant that you can do it on a fairly small budget. Something like this for £85 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-CLASS ... SwxN5WbErA means you can get NOS or modern replacement parts and still have change from £200, I've seen a near NOS Raleigh Royal Lady for £260.
£1000 retail just for materials/parts seems inordinately expensive.

ukdodger
Posts: 2992
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 5:32pm
Location: Sunny Surrey

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby ukdodger » 18 Dec 2015, 12:45pm

kylecycler wrote:You couldn't put a price on that bicycle because a) you built it yourself, lovingly, for someone who is dear to you and b) it's unique. You couldn't convert that into money, and neither you should.

And I hope you know (well, you do now!) that you're a (should be proud) member of SOPWAMTOS - the Society of People Who Actually Make Their Own Sh!t, according to the great American framebuilder Bruce Gordon - you can even buy the T-shirt - you've earned it! :)

Bruce Gordon is (I think) the only surviving framebuilder who features in this wonderful book. Go to your bed and read it in the morning, otherwise you'll be up all night. :D


Thanks. Interesting read. I got into this via Richard Talbot's book written in 1984 where he makes a frame using wooden jigs! Dont think I'd like to try that. Cant see how they didnt catch fire. But it has lots of useful information in it. Then I discovered an eighteen year old Aussie female (Suzy Jackson Little Fish Bicycles) who did the same and I thought if a slip of a girl can do it so can an old bloke. Her first frame came apart at the BB where the silver hadnt crossed the joint but as you can see she's now exceptionally good. She doesnt sell them either (I think). And she does the paint job!

Image

Brucey
Posts: 37356
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby Brucey » 18 Dec 2015, 1:37pm

that is a very pretty frame. There's a lot of work in getting those stainless steel (?) lugs to look like that....

BTW if that frame is built using the parts I think it is, you are looking at about £300-£400 just for the parts to build the frame from....?

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ukdodger
Posts: 2992
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 5:32pm
Location: Sunny Surrey

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby ukdodger » 18 Dec 2015, 1:49pm

Brucey wrote:that is a very pretty frame. There's a lot of work in getting those stainless steel (?) lugs to look like that....

BTW if that frame is built using the parts I think it is, you are looking at about £300-£400 just for the parts to build the frame from....?

cheers


They're all Henry James lugs. The best I believe. I have to use Chinese lugs made from reclaimed steel. I cant afford the HJ.

While you're on Brucey what does the 'SV' refer to on Schwalbe inner tubes. I bought some marked 'SV15' which turned out to be too thin (in width). Are 'SV17' tubes the alternative. A wider version? Dont want to return even more!

beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby beardy » 18 Dec 2015, 2:02pm

SV is Sclaverand (presta) valve
AV is Auto (Shraeder) valve
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/schlaeuche.html

You can (theoretically) enter your requirements on that page for a recommended tube, it doesnt work with my browser though.

Brucey
Posts: 37356
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How much would you pay for this

Postby Brucey » 18 Dec 2015, 2:19pm

SV stands for Sclaverand Valve (which is German for Presta) and the number following is a Schwalbe reference number (not related to size per se, but indicating a specific tube).

If you can get a copy of the Schwalbe catalogue (paper or pdf) there is a page in the back where it shows which tube types fit which size tyres. Normally they quote a range of sizes for each tube and if you use a tube with the largest allowable size of tyre for that tube it will be somewhat stretched when installed. If you use it with the narrowest allowable tyre size then it will be a nice snug fit.

There is an online tube finder (that I couldn't make work... :roll: ) and an explanation of the four valve types here

http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/schlaeuche.html

IIRC SV15 is for 18-28mm width 700C (and is too stretched for my tastes in anything much over a 25mm tyre) and SV17 is for 28-42mm width 700C. In some tube sizes they do lightweight versions too.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~