How much would you pay for this

[whoof]

£600 plus the basket
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/ele ... wwodUXUD0w

What you have done is utilised your hobby to make something for someone and your have achieved something that most people are not capable of. That's very rewarding for both of you.
I think the comment above about the fork being bent relates to the line it takes. If you follow the line of the headtube the fork comes back a bit (not including the rake). Most bikes the line is straight or goes forward slightly. But I think that this is just the style of bike it is.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5 ... 283203323/

[anniesboy]

I would have bought this instead,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dawes-Duchess-B ... adies+bike

[Brucey]

re silver price;.....Currently silver is about $13-14/oz which is 'only' ~x3 its historical average, not x13. So on that basis I'd suggest that you need to buy your silver solder somewhere else.

http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/home/

looks a bit more reasonable...?

cheers

That may be the the bulk price but this is what you'd pay for Cad free 55% silver.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/silver-flo-5 ... loy-810475

I'm going to try with brass next time

not sure if you mean bulk price for silver or for rods

http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/low-temp-silver-solder/index.asp

is ~1/2 to ~1/3 the price for the same alloy, depending on whether you buy one or five frame's worth. If I can find that price inside five minutes I have little doubt that you can do better than that with a little effort. Its the same old story, prices go up quickly but down slowly; you are still buying rods like silver is $50/oz, which it hasn't been for some time.

BTW there are many alternative Cd-free silver alloys that you can use if you are prepared to have a (very slightly) increased melting point, most of them a bit cheaper.

One method that some builders use is to silver braze the main lugged joints with an expensive material and then to use a different material (with better fillet-forming characteristics and a higher melting point) for the other joints. Brazing in dropouts etc can use a lot of filler material to little good effect if you are not careful.

cheers

[ukdodger]

re silver price;.....Currently silver is about $13-14/oz which is 'only' ~x3 its historical average, not x13. So on that basis I'd suggest that you need to buy your silver solder somewhere else.

http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/home/

looks a bit more reasonable...?

cheers

That may be the the bulk price but this is what you'd pay for Cad free 55% silver.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/silver-flo-5 ... loy-810475

I'm going to try with brass next time

not sure if you mean bulk price for silver or for rods

http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/low-temp-silver-solder/index.asp

is ~1/2 to ~1/3 the price for the same alloy, depending on whether you buy one or five frame's worth. If I can find that price inside five minutes I have little doubt that you can do better than that with a little effort. Its the same old story, prices go up quickly but down slowly; you are still buying rods like silver is $50/oz, which it hasn't been for some time.

BTW there are many alternative Cd-free silver alloys that you can use if you are prepared to have a (very slightly) increased melting point, most of them a bit cheaper.

One method that some builders use is to silver braze the main lugged joints with an expensive material and then to use a different material (with better fillet-forming characteristics and a higher melting point) for the other joints. Brazing in dropouts etc can use a lot of filler material to little good effect if you are not careful.

cheers

Taking into account the 100mm less the Cup Alloy's work out at £10.76 per rod and they arent Johnson Matthey. That's a good deal more than x3 over the 2010 price.

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/JMY8754530R

You can find them for less but not a lot less and not Johnson Matthey.

Silver solder is no good for dropouts as it is too fluid to fill holes. Even on tiny holes it will run straight through. Brass fill holes perfectly but is difficult to control without burning the flux. Sifbronze 101 is used for dropouts.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Something I would like to do is build a frame, must be very satisfying.
Did think it was the camera.
What about a better pic

[ukdodger]

Hi,
Something I would like to do is build a frame, must be very satisfying.
Did think it was the camera.
What about a better pic

If you have the right tools, some patience and some instructions it isnt that difficult. A granite surface table is the one thing you cant do without. You can pick them up in engineering auctions for a few hundred and they come in useful for lots of other things in a workshop.

I'll take some more pics when I can find my old Olympus camera.

[TrevA]

I wouldn't pay more than 5 or 600. You can get a Pashley Princess for that which includes a Brooks leather saddle and a dynohub.

[Brucey]

Taking into account the 100mm less the Cup Alloy's work out at £10.76 per rod and they arent Johnson Matthey. That's a good deal more than x3 over the 2010 price.

I'm not sure you have done your maths right (unless you are buying rods two at a time; why would you do that when you need about five to do a frame...?) Your cost was about £22.70/m (plus postage?). I make it that from the site I linked to you get 2.5m for ~£30 (5 x 0.5m rods) or 12.5m for ~£110 (25 x 0.5m rods) . This works out at £12/m or ~£8.80/m including VAT and postage.

I agree that this is more than the present market price of silver might indicate vs historic prices, but I think that having managed to sell at the higher prices in the last few years they are slow to reduce the price back down again.

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/JMY8754530R

You can find them for less but not a lot less and not Johnson Matthey.

there are ISO standards for the most common alloys. As long as it is made to the ISO standard it ought to behave similarly.

Silver solder is no good for dropouts as it is too fluid to fill holes. Even on tiny holes it will run straight through. Brass fill holes perfectly but is difficult to control without burning the flux. Sifbronze 101 is used for dropouts.

well it depends on the fit of the parts (e.g. domed ends that are slotted accurately can be silver brazed) and the type of silver braze alloy you use; some alloys have an extended mushy range and will fill holes quite well; other alloys flow well and then turn mushy after a short time molten.

BTW maybe you do this already but when working with higher melting point alloys a good trick is to dip the hot rod into dry powdered flux every now and then; this way you can add fresh flux to the work whilst the work is bathed in a soft reducing flame; this can often counter flux burning tendencies, but if you have the flame set too hot you will struggle regardless.

cheers

[horizon]

Total cost of materials retail £1026.64

Who would pay that (it's not for sale)?

ukdodger: I'm not sure from your post whether you actually paid that for the materials or that is what they would cost or that you made the frame yourself.

But that is all IMV irrelevant. The beauty of a bicycle is that you can make one yourself from parts to your own design and satisfaction. And that, as someone has said, is priceless.

Bikes bought new are unbelievable VFM and that is great. But going though any process of build or repair is a wonderful experience and opens up all sorts of doors. All I can say is that I love the bike and hats off to your perseverance and skill.

[Brucey]

I wouldn't pay more than 5 or 600. You can get a Pashley Princess for that which includes a Brooks leather saddle and a dynohub.

I think that the Pashley will be a considerably heavier bike, with a reduced gear range. The OP's bike has a handbuilt frameset and ought to be both considerably lighter in weight and a pleasure to ride.

FWIW I recently weighed a current model gents roadster pashley frameset (including headset and BB) and it weighed about 12lbs. The OP's frameset ought to weigh around 7lbs bare, no more than 8lbs with headset and BB installed. If so, there is just no comparison between them.

Its difficult to tell from the pictures but if you went to have a frameset like that handbuilt elsewhere it would cost more than the OP's total budget for the bike. That (to uneducated eyes) it looks like it is worth about half that is no bad thing IMHO because it may deter people from trying to nick it.

BTW UKD, have you weighed the bike? I'm guessing about 29-30lbs as it stands in the photos?

cheers

[fastpedaller]

I'd pay about £1030......

I typed the above before I understood you hadn't merely assembled it like most of us, but that you had also BUILT the frame.... So please forgive my flippant remark (said wholly in jest). Full marks for a top job I take my hat off to you sir. The true value is all the work, skill and dedication you put in - On that there is no price!

[ukdodger]

Taking into account the 100mm less the Cup Alloy's work out at £10.76 per rod and they arent Johnson Matthey. That's a good deal more than x3 over the 2010 price.

I'm not sure you have done your maths right (unless you are buying rods two at a time; why would you do that when you need about five to do a frame...?) Your cost was about £22.70/m (plus postage?). I make it that from the site I linked to you get 2.5m for ~£30 (5 x 0.5m rods) or 12.5m for ~£110 (25 x 0.5m rods) . This works out at £12/m or ~£8.80/m including VAT and postage.

I agree that this is more than the present market price of silver might indicate vs historic prices, but I think that having managed to sell at the higher prices in the last few years they are slow to reduce the price back down again.

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/JMY8754530R

You can find them for less but not a lot less and not Johnson Matthey.

there are ISO standards for the most common alloys. As long as it is made to the ISO standard it ought to behave similarly.

Silver solder is no good for dropouts as it is too fluid to fill holes. Even on tiny holes it will run straight through. Brass fill holes perfectly but is difficult to control without burning the flux. Sifbronze 101 is used for dropouts.

well it depends on the fit of the parts (e.g. domed ends that are slotted accurately can be silver brazed) and the type of silver braze alloy you use; some alloys have an extended mushy range and will fill holes quite well; other alloys flow well and then turn mushy after a short time molten.

BTW maybe you do this already but when working with higher melting point alloys a good trick is to dip the hot rod into dry powdered flux every now and then; this way you can add fresh flux to the work whilst the work is bathed in a soft reducing flame; this can often counter flux burning tendencies, but if you have the flame set too hot you will struggle regardless.

cheers

We could argue the price of silver all day. Yes it depends on the spec but also on whether you trust the supplier. Johnson Matthey are considerably higher than Cup Alloys. I prefer Johnson. You get what you pay for.

http://www.hvacstore.co.uk/acatalog/Sil ... GwodGJgC9A

I always dip the rod. But it's no guarantee against burning. Burning occurs when you hold the flame on too long rather than how hot it is though both will do the trick.

There's not much point in using expensive silver where brass will work. Plug ended dropouts might work with silver but are ugly to look at

[ukdodger]

I'd pay about £1030......

I typed the above before I understood you hadn't merely assembled it like most of us, but that you had also BUILT the frame.... So please forgive my flippant remark (said wholly in jest). Full marks for a top job I take my hat off to you sir. The true value is all the work, skill and dedication you put in - On that there is no price!

But you were right. I doubt I could sell that for more than £600-£800. Although what price good parts.

[ukdodger]

Total cost of materials retail £1026.64

Who would pay that (it's not for sale)?

ukdodger: I'm not sure from your post whether you actually paid that for the materials or that is what they would cost or that you made the frame yourself.

But that is all IMV irrelevant. The beauty of a bicycle is that you can make one yourself from parts to your own design and satisfaction. And that, as someone has said, is priceless.

Bikes bought new are unbelievable VFM and that is great. But going though any process of build or repair is a wonderful experience and opens up all sorts of doors. All I can say is that I love the bike and hats off to your perseverance and skill.

Cheers Horizon. I owe you a beer. It's a great feeling when you ride them out for the first time.

That's what the total cost was of all the parts retail including the powder coating. That's my fifth frame. So far none have fallen apart and the first I have done over 5k miles on. I wanted to spray them as well and even bought all the gear including a compressor but soon discovered that you need another paint workshop to do it properly. Tried using spray cans with not much success.

[Brucey]

...We could argue the price of silver all day. Yes it depends on the spec but also on whether you trust the supplier. Johnson Matthey are considerably higher than Cup Alloys. I prefer Johnson. You get what you pay for.

I would usually advise anyone starting out with silver brazing to use JM products because that way there is no doubt about their suitability for the job; keeping doubt out of the equation is important in the early stages. But once a bit of experience is gained most people find that they can do good quality work with standard ISO alloys. If cost is an issue then I'd suggest running a few testpieces and seeing how you get on with different materials.

There's not much point in using expensive silver where brass will work. Plug ended dropouts might work with silver but are ugly to look at

Well I meant dome ended blades and stays (not commonplace) but yes socketed fittings can be silver brazed too; not my cup of tea, but ugly or not is in the eye of the beholder. Whether there is any point in it is moot; you can argue the same things for the main frame joints too, and likewise the deciding factor is often what kind of tubing you are using and what kind of post-braze properties you want.

cheers