E bikes - do you secretly want one?

[ukdodger]

Maybe one answer lies in how battery power is delivered when needed. Instead of simply turning it on and off why not deliver it as a proportion of the overall peddling power required at any given moment. ie it delivers a proportion of power dependent on the pressure being applied to the pedals by the cyclist. That way it supplements the power of the cyclist rather than takes over. Most help is then given when most needed. You could even set the overall maximum of delivered assistance so that if a cyclist is feeling fit and wants to power up a hill the unit could stop delivering power at a certain pedal pressure or cadence.

[Phil Fouracre]

Not sure about 'snobbish doldrums'! Is that between car drivers and cyclists, or, cyclists on this forum I do love the fact that so many on here still bang on about it being cheating, funny, if it wasn't quite so boring.

I meant both,the lack of acceptance by some of a natural progression is a bit worrying,especially when it comes from other cyclists.It's a forgone conclusion that some motorists are anticycling whether elec assist or not,to them cyclists are a nuisance that 'get in the way',that viewpoint seems to be a lot more prevalent in the UK than mainland Europe where road users in general seem to be far more tolerant.

I think it sums up the basic difference between the two most common types of cyclist that we have, the 'utility', or what I like to call normal, cyclist, and the sport/racing/lycra type. Despite being lumped together in the eyes of the general public, I don't really think we have that much in common.

Cyclists are cyclists and most people don't make a distinction.
That said it's hard as a cyclist not to,but that doesn't have to be for negative reasons IMO.Practically there are big differences between say enthusiasts and those who see the bike as no more than a utility tool to get from A to B.
The problem here is the outgroupism within the outgroup or should that be the selectivism within the already outgrouped

Blimey! This is getting very deep! I think you've summed it up very well, although, as with everything, there are always shades of grey, in this case people who would put themselves somewhere between 'enthusiasts' and 'utility' riders

[reohn2]

Blimey! This is getting very deep! I think you've summed it up very well, although, as with everything, there are always shades of grey, in this case people who would put themselves somewhere between 'enthusiasts' and 'utility' riders

Yep,deep,hmmm.
Shades of grey,there must be at least 50,or so I'm told.
After all,according to some cycling is a form of masochism

[Phil Fouracre]

Maybe one answer lies in how battery power is delivered when needed. Instead of simply turning it on and off why not deliver it as a proportion of the overall peddling power required at any given moment. ie it delivers a proportion of power dependent on the pressure being applied to the pedals by the cyclist. That way it supplements the power of the cyclist rather than takes over. Most help is then given when most needed. You could even set the overall maximum of delivered assistance so that if a cyclist is feeling fit and wants to power up a hill the unit could stop delivering power at a certain pedal pressure or cadence.

As with everything, technology is always racing ahead. My 'old' lecci bike has that facility, which was one of the main reasons I got it! Recovering from a very serious, non cycling, accident, I needed something to help with physio, and to stop me going 'stir crazy'. Served its purpose admirably, and, yes, I've been able to adjust the assist to suit my improving fitness. Even basic, retrofit kits now have proportional assist. If anyone is in any doubt about 'cheating', just try a few miles with the power turned off, then you'll know how fit you really are )

[Phil Fouracre]

Blimey! This is getting very deep! I think you've summed it up very well, although, as with everything, there are always shades of grey, in this case people who would put themselves somewhere between 'enthusiasts' and 'utility' riders

Yep,deep,hmmm.
Shades of grey,there must be at least 50,or so I'm told.
After all,according to some cycling is a form of masochism

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist

[Manc33]

The biggest obstacle to pedelecs and cycling in general in the UK is the UK's attitude to cycling which is that it has to be a sport and not transport.

Well said and this is what I am trying to get at when I say no one seems to sell "in between" bikes, all the shops seem to cater for either road racing, or all out mountain biking. They literally have no other bikes, maybe a shopper bike or something.

Isn't this where that immortal phrase "Thank god for Spa Cycles" came from? You can't just go in Halford's or Decathlon and start buying 110BCD chainrings and if you could they would probably be a lot more costly than Spa anyway (no I'm not an affiliate although I probably sound like one).

Commuting you certainly don't want a road "racing" bike and you can I suppose put slicks on a MTB but you're still on fat tyres. For me though a MTB is closer to a commuting bike than one with drop handlebars and 700x23 tyres.

[ukdodger]

The biggest obstacle to pedelecs and cycling in general in the UK is the UK's attitude to cycling which is that it has to be a sport and not transport.

Well said and this is what I am trying to get at when I say no one seems to sell "in between" bikes, all the shops seem to cater for either road racing, or all out mountain biking. They literally have no other bikes, maybe a shopper bike or something.

Isn't this where that immortal phrase "Thank god for Spa Cycles" came from? You can't just go in Halford's or Decathlon and start buying 110BCD chainrings and if you could they would probably be a lot more costly than Spa anyway (no I'm not an affiliate although I probably sound like one).

Commuting you certainly don't want a road "racing" bike and you can I suppose put slicks on a MTB but you're still on fat tyres. For me though a MTB is closer to a commuting bike than one with drop handlebars and 700x23 tyres.

I see your point. Retailers do seem infatuated with racing and MB's. But a steel tourer is good enough for commuting and there are shops that specialise in Dutch bikes that are made for nothing else but commuting. Although those I've seen in Holland looked almost as heavy as a motorbike.

Also dont mention the 'H' word. It's been known to spark a posting frenzy.

[Dave W]

I guess shops stock what sells. Aren't hybrids in fashion any more?

[reohn2]

The biggest obstacle to pedelecs and cycling in general in the UK is the UK's attitude to cycling which is that it has to be a sport and not transport.

Well said and this is what I am trying to get at when I say no one seems to sell "in between" bikes, all the shops seem to cater for either road racing, or all out mountain biking. They literally have no other bikes, maybe a shopper bike or something.

IMO that's because of what I posted,generally the attitude to cycling is one some kind of sport.
Obviously there are enclaves of utility cycling in more cycle friendly cities and towns but they're in the minority.

Isn't this where that immortal phrase "Thank god for Spa Cycles" came from? You can't just go in Halford's or Decathlon and start buying 110BCD chainrings and if you could they would probably be a lot more costly than Spa anyway (no I'm not an affiliate although I probably sound like one).

Spa Cycles have always been a leettle niche,a balmy palm tree oasis in the desert.
Halfords and Decathlon are stack high sell 'em cheap sort of places that don't specialise,which is good in some way for utility riders that don't fiddle with their bike endlessly but cater for buy/ride/cheap,and that's not an accusation,as it does suit some people.

Commuting you certainly don't want a road "racing" bike and you can I suppose put slicks on a MTB but you're still on fat tyres. For me though a MTB is closer to a commuting bike than one with drop handlebars and 700x23 tyres.

Commuting in the UK for the most part is a world away from the continental model,and UK commuters tend to be a hardy bunch because they need to be generally in the UK,due to the poor facilities and bad and sometime down right dangerous antagonistic driving habits toward cyclists.
Cycling in recent years has caught on like a house on fire in the UK,but it would be far more prolific if the powers that be made it perceptively safer,and where cyclists didn't have to mix with the type of motorists we currently do.
That's not just a call for better facilities which would be more than welcome,but for better driving standards too,which are sadly lacking on UK roads.

[tod28]

You can't just go in Halford's or Decathlon and start buying 110BCD chainrings

110BCD chainrings are available at both Halfords and Decathalon = Halfords selection of Stronglight chainrings is quite comprehensive, well priced and can be collected in store.

[mjr]

You can't just go in Halford's or Decathlon and start buying 110BCD chainrings

110BCD chainrings are available at both Halfords and Decathalon = Halfords selection of Stronglight chainrings is quite comprehensive, well priced and can be collected in store.

Can be collected? As in, they order them in through their dysfunctional click-and-collect service? As in, you can't just go in and buy them like in the LBS? As in, Manc33 was correct?

[whoof]

what I am trying to get at when I say no one seems to sell "in between" bikes, all the shops seem to cater for either road racing, or all out mountain biking. They literally have no other bikes, maybe a shopper bike or something.

.

A couple of minutes search on a large cycle retailer's website. I don't think you would get many results road racing and I wouldn't ride many of them an mountain bike trails.

https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-penny ... e-EV274352
https://www.evanscycles.com/pinnacle-ca ... e-EV199189
https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-dawes ... e-EV218082
https://www.evanscycles.com/bobbin-bicy ... e-EV229247
https://www.evanscycles.com/electra-tow ... e-EV262750
https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-diamo ... e-EV238279
https://www.evanscycles.com/brompton-m1 ... e-EV204180
https://www.evanscycles.com/pashley-tri ... e-00118776
https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-karak ... e-EV238295

I used to work in the Netherlands. Commuting is different than the UK. I used to ride to the office on something that looked like this in the same clothes I worked in.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqRHJBwFIv ... g~~_32.JPG
Now in the UK I commute on a bike that looks similar to a 'racing' bike (with mudguards and a rack).
The difference is in the Netherlands all the people who were riding sit-up and beg bikes in their work clothes were riding a couple of kms each way. No one would have ridden the 20 km that I currently do on such a bike they would get a tram/bus or drive.

[mjr]

The difference is in the Netherlands all the people who were riding sit-up and beg bikes in their work clothes were riding a couple of kms each way. No one would have ridden the 20 km that I currently do on such a bike they would get a tram/bus or drive.

2% of all journeys over 15 km in the Netherlands were by bicycle by 2009 - http://www.fietsberaad.nl/library/repos ... ds2009.pdf - and while we don't know what sort of bikes they rode, I'd be surprised if no-one rode the good old traditional roadsters or opafiets/omafiets because some of them really are very comfortable.

[ukdodger]

what I am trying to get at when I say no one seems to sell "in between" bikes, all the shops seem to cater for either road racing, or all out mountain biking. They literally have no other bikes, maybe a shopper bike or something.

.

A couple of minutes search on a large cycle retailer's website. I don't think you would get many results road racing and I wouldn't ride many of them an mountain bike trails.

https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-penny ... e-EV274352
https://www.evanscycles.com/pinnacle-ca ... e-EV199189
https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-dawes ... e-EV218082
https://www.evanscycles.com/bobbin-bicy ... e-EV229247
https://www.evanscycles.com/electra-tow ... e-EV262750
https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-diamo ... e-EV238279
https://www.evanscycles.com/brompton-m1 ... e-EV204180
https://www.evanscycles.com/pashley-tri ... e-00118776
https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-karak ... e-EV238295

I used to work in the Netherlands. Commuting is different than the UK. I used to ride to the office on something that looked like this in the same clothes I worked in.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqRHJBwFIv ... g~~_32.JPG
Now in the UK I commute on a bike that looks similar to a 'racing' bike (with mudguards and a rack).
The difference is in the Netherlands all the people who were riding sit-up and beg bikes in their work clothes were riding a couple of kms each way. No one would have ridden the 20 km that I currently do on such a bike they would get a tram/bus or drive.

I'm surprised given how flat the terrain is over there that a commute of 12m would send people to a bus. They must be really spoiled cycling wise.

[Manc33]

About half of those "alternative" (not road or MTB) bikes at Evans look like women's shopper bikes.

I always imagine the roads in France and Italy are a lot smoother than they are in England hence why they don't really care about riding "race" bikes there, while in England we are always letting a bit of air out or going to another setup because of the roads.

"They ride over cobbles in the Tour de France"

I don't care

They are after winning a race, of course they are going to ride over cobbles, but that doesn't mean people just riding their bikes should be doing the equivalent, the aim for me is comfort.

Imagine a car showroom that sold Grand Prix cars and them thinking you don't need indicators, boot space, passengers to go in it etc and when you ask for that stuff he directs you next door to a showroom selling only Land Rovers. You can have a Grand Prix car or a Land Rover and nothing else. This is just how cycling is setup.

I think there's a hidden billion pound industry with bikes but its working it out lol. Most times a new idea comes out like a road/touring frame with mild suspension or something, it never takes off.