New wheels recommend please

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
phil parker
Posts: 1005
Joined: 31 Dec 2009, 5:09pm
Location: Hants/Wilts

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby phil parker » 6 Feb 2016, 1:08pm

Freddie wrote:I think with the very stiff rims of today you can actually get too much tension into a rim, which when you add time and corrosion from road salt, can cause cracking at the eyelets.


Image

phil parker
Posts: 1005
Joined: 31 Dec 2009, 5:09pm
Location: Hants/Wilts

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby phil parker » 6 Feb 2016, 1:15pm

Freddie wrote:OP, if you don't want to build wheels, you can buy some from Rose Bikes, then stress relieve and true them, achieving much the same effect for less time and effort than a completely handbuilt wheel.


As a regular wheel builder, I would advise to either buy a good set or get a good set built for you and if you fancy taking up wheel building, do it at your own leisure for wheels you don't have to immediately rely upon - or experiment with your old wheels to get you started or take the advice above!

User avatar
georgew
Posts: 1483
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 4:23pm

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby georgew » 7 Feb 2016, 10:33am

Freddie wrote:OP, if you don't want to build wheels, you can buy some from Rose Bikes, then stress relieve and true them, achieving much the same effect for less time and effort than a completely handbuilt wheel.



This is what I did with two sets of these wheels and I'm very pleased with the results. Their own rims have proved extremely tough even to serious incidents with pot-holes and I'd recommend them.

AlastairS
Posts: 510
Joined: 15 Aug 2011, 3:24pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby AlastairS » 8 Feb 2016, 2:20pm

Thanks everyone for all your replies.

Answers to your questions :
I weigh 75kg, 5'8".
I have not asked my LBS for quote for new wheels - I think they won't be cheap (Edinburgh Bicycle and Alpine Bikes).

I think I will try to build them myself given your advice.

The Galaxy is 2003 edition.

The tyres are on them are either 32 or 35mm, but I would like 28mm.

Is there a rim weight I should try to stay below if I want the wheels to rotate reasonably easily (on a budget though) ?

Can someone recommend rims and spoke nipples I can choose ?

Thanks

nirakaro
Posts: 1026
Joined: 22 Dec 2007, 2:01am

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby nirakaro » 8 Feb 2016, 3:08pm

If you’re using new spokes, they generally come with nipples; if not, I got nipples from stradahandbulitwheels: about six quid for a hundred.
I’m very happy with my Rigida X-pace rims, but I don’t think they do them for 700c wheels. Try looking at Rigida Chrina or Sputnik?

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2159
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby TrevA » 8 Feb 2016, 3:51pm

If you want 28mm tyres, I'd go for a wider rim - perhaps Rigida Sputnik or Mavic A319 or 719 with 36 spokes.

I bought my back wheel via mail order from St John's St Cycles in Bridgewater and it's been fine for a year's commuting and a 500 mile Tour of the Inner Hebrides with 2 heavy panniers. It was just under £100. It's a 36 spoke Mavic A319 on a Deore hub. Front wheel will be slightly cheaper so you are probably looking at about £180 for a pair.

I previously had a similar wheel built by Spa Cycles, but kept breaking spokes on the non-drive side. Spa use thinner spokes on the NDS but, interestingly, St Johns don't. There's a theory that you can get away with thinner spokes on the NDS, or even that they are preferable. Given my experience, I don't subscribe to this theory. YMMV.

If you go for Chrinas or similar(Mavic Open Sport or Open Pro), then the rims are narrower and you'll have to adjust your brakes.

Choice of hubs depends on the width of your dropouts. 135mm and you are looking at MTB hubs like Deore. 130mm and you need road hubs like Tiagra, 105 or Ultegra. That's providing you stick with Shimano. There are other hubs such as Hope, Ambrosio.

I do find that wider, heavier wheels are slower on the hills, but don't really make much difference on the flat. Wider tyres give greater comfort but are a little slower. I find my 37mm tyres about 3 mins slower than 25mm tyres on a 10 mile commute.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

AlastairS
Posts: 510
Joined: 15 Aug 2011, 3:24pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby AlastairS » 8 Feb 2016, 7:54pm

Yes , I want to go for 28mm tyres.
£180 is much more than I would like to pay, so building wheels myself may be the way to go.
If you go for Chrinas or similar(Mavic Open Sport or Open Pro), then the rims are narrower and you'll have to adjust your brakes.
By adjust, do you mean , simply pull the brake cable down then tighten nut so that brake pads are closer to the rim when the brake is not being used? If so, then that's fine.

If you want 28mm tyres, I'd go for a wider rim - perhaps Rigida Sputnik or Mavic A319 or 719 with 36 spokes.
Why would I want a wider rim if I choose a slimmer tyre (35mm->28mm)?

I need to point out that I will not be using this bike for touring, just commuting so no heavy weights to carry - maybe I could use 33 spokes instead of 36 spokes.

New spokes seem to be cheap, I should go for new, unless there is no reason not togo for existing spokes.

Hubs: I would like to use the ones on my wheels which are Deore, probably 135mm.
Will it be a problem for me to lace up the new wheel if the current wheel has 36 spokes and the new wheel is to have 32 spokes ? If yes, then i'll just go for 36 spokes.

Will it be a problem to lace up the new spokes if I am using the same hubs ??

If you go for Chrinas or similar(Mavic Open Sport or Open Pro), then the rims are narrower and you'll have to adjust your brakes.
If the rims are narrower than the others you mention, then maybe these are the ones for me. Do they cost more, any disadvantage of the wider rims.

Spokes - I wouldn't begin to know what kind of spokes I need to buy (but maybe I can just use the originals).
Thanks

MikeF
Posts: 3767
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby MikeF » 8 Feb 2016, 8:35pm

AlastairS wrote:Hi,
My Dawes Galaxy tourer is my second bike, I only use it commuting or going to the shops.
The rims on my wheels are noticeably concave, should I buy new wheels and if so can you recommend something as I wouldn't know where to begin other than I would like
28mm tyres and the wheels , I don't want to spend much.
Thanks
You may want to measure the thickness of your old rims first - they may still be good enough. An Iwanson gauge ( I learnt that from this forum) or jewellers measuring gauge will let you do that. Both available on Ebay for a few pounds.
I've an old bike and the rims seem slightly concave, but there seems enough "meat"on them. You may not need new rims yet. :wink:

If you want to buy new spokes and nipples Rosebikes sell them separately at a very good price, but it depends on the condition of your old ones. If you can find a new rim with the same effective rim diameter ERD you need only swap rims. Do you know the make of the existing rims? If you use the existing hubs you will have to use the same number of spokes or your existing spokes so you need a rim with 36 spoke holes if that's what you hub has. If the hubs are fine then there's no point in buying new ones. Maybe all you need are new rims or maybe even just one?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

the snail
Posts: 151
Joined: 5 Aug 2011, 3:11pm

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby the snail » 8 Feb 2016, 8:37pm

What rims are on there now? Your simplest and cheapest option would be to find rims with the same ERD and spoke count as you have now, then you can re-use your spokes (no point in replacing if you don't have to. Tape new rim to old, transfer the spokes over to the new one, tension and true. No point in going to 32 spoke - you won't notice any difference. You could go for a narrower rim if you never want wider tyres, but I'd check to see how your brakes will play with them. Personally I'd go with something like ryde sputniks - not light, but cheap strong and durable. A galaxy will never be a lightweight whatever rims you put on.Sheldon Brown is well worth reading before you start
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

mercalia
Posts: 11472
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby mercalia » 8 Feb 2016, 9:31pm

if you dont use the same model rims u have then you need to work out the length of the spokes needed for the hubs you have? The reason why I would never have tried to build without the tension meter is I was able measure the old wheels spoke tension and that gave me a target to aim for.

as some have said here are the old wheels that bad? is the breaking poor? or are to thin now?

MikeF
Posts: 3767
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby MikeF » 8 Feb 2016, 9:48pm

mercalia wrote:if you dont use the same model rims u have then you need to work out the length of the spokes needed for the hubs you have? The reason why I would never have tried to build without the tension meter is I was able measure the old wheels spoke tension and that gave me a target to aim for.

as some have said here are the old wheels that bad? is the breaking poor? or are to thin now?
I've never used a tension meter. I've just tightened them so they feel "pretty tight". Rims are still true and spokes still have the same ping. I think I'll have to replace a front rim before too many more miles. Wear groove seems to be getting shallow.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2159
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby TrevA » 9 Feb 2016, 12:15pm

If you don't want to pay £180, the SJS cycles do some budget alternatives that would be OK, if you aren't doing fully-loaded touring. Look towards the botton of this page:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelsets-dept698_pg1/

You need 700c/622 wheels. These may suit:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/700c-622-whe ... prod31347/

Rosebikes also do some cheaper wheels.

15mm rims such as Chrina's or Open Pro's are designed for tyres up to 25mm wide. They can be used for wider tyres such as 28mm and above, but wider rims (17 or 19mm internal width) are more suited to these wider tyres.

I would buy some cheap wheels, and then rebuild your existing ones with new rims at your leisure. Then you'll have a spare pair if needed.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

Des49
Posts: 629
Joined: 2 Dec 2014, 11:45am

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby Des49 » 9 Feb 2016, 1:24pm

TrevA wrote:I previously had a similar wheel built by Spa Cycles, but kept breaking spokes on the non-drive side. Spa use thinner spokes on the NDS but, interestingly, St Johns don't. There's a theory that you can get away with thinner spokes on the NDS, or even that they are preferable. Given my experience, I don't subscribe to this theory. YMMV.


I wonder if this was the issue with defective Sapim spokes 2 to 3 years ago? A well built wheel will last a long time, eventually spokes will break through fatigue at the elbow, if they were breaking at any other point along their length then the material was suspect, it can happen to any wheel builder (but is rare). Spa do have a good reputation and generally the DS will break before the NDS.

I experienced problems with Sapim spokes, supplied by Spa, but built the wheels myself. The spokes were clearly defective and I did receive a couple of boxes of replacement spokes at no charge in due course.

In highly dished wheels there is a good case in using plain gauge spokes on the DS but double butted on the NDS, the latter are only thinner in the centre sections, the ends are the same thickness as plain gauge spokes. Not something I have done myself yet as most of my wheels are undished or 7 speed. But I do have a pair to build soon on more modern hubs and may consider this approach.

PH
Posts: 7576
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby PH » 9 Feb 2016, 1:31pm

TrevA wrote:15mm rims such as Chrina's or Open Pro's are designed for tyres up to 25mm wide. They can be used for wider tyres such as 28mm and above, but wider rims (17 or 19mm internal width) are more suited to these wider tyres.

Chrina and Open pro rims are not the same width, 13.5 & 15mm I think. Your ideal tyre size is very conservitive compared to Sheldon Brown who's chart sugests a much larger range and says that errs on the side of caution. 14 - 15mm rims with 28mm tyres are pretty normal on Audax bikes, the same rims with wider cyclocross tyres are pretty standard on races, I've not heard of people having problems.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2159
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby TrevA » 9 Feb 2016, 7:42pm

So if Chrinas are 13.5 wide, they aren't suitable for tyres wider than 25mm, according to Sheldon, which sort of agrees with what I was saying. A 17mm rim would have 28mm right in the centre of the range so you could go narrower or wider without problems.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com