....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

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531colin
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by 531colin »

I'll see if i can do a rough comparison of the layback of the Holdsworth post compared to the "old" Velo Orange and a Kalloy hockey stick post that I've got hiding somewhere, given a bit of time in daylight to-day.
All my posts are 27.2, so I'll simply measure from the "front" of the post to the "front" of the seat clamp.
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Samuel D »

Very interested to see the results.

You probably have a more accurate way to measure, but if not, a sharp photograph taken square-on from as far as possible (with a long focal length, e.g. the tele end of a zoom) would allow us to use Photoshop’s Ruler Tool to measure a known distance (e.g. the 27.2 mm of the seatpost width) and from that estimate the layback with useful precision.
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531colin
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by 531colin »

I'm a simple man......

Image

Fix a bit of square section ali. to the seatpost

Image

Measure from the front of the saddle rail clamp to the bit of ali.

Results......
The Holdsworth seatpost pictured measured about 28mm.
Old-type VO. seatpost measured about 32mm
Kalloy hockey-stick post measured about 19mm

So, the Holdsworth seatpost offers a noticeable amount more layback than the Kalloy....around 10mm
There was much less difference between the Holdsworth and old VO posts than I expected.....in my first picture, my Gilles Berthoud saddle is as far back as it will go in the Holdsworth post, and its a slack-angled frame. But, some of that is due to the saddle, not the post.....

Image

A pile of 3 saddles (I lined up the back of the saddles) shows the GB saddle won't go as far back as even a Brooks (yellow tape marks the end of the straight bit of the Brooks' rails).....the winner, as far as getting the saddle back in the seatpost clamp is concerned, is a Charge Spoon.

This is, of course, a bit rough and ready.....but its pointless measuring this stuff to decimal places, i move around on the saddle anyway.
It looks like the original VO post quoted layback of 30.2mm is from the centre of the seatpost stem to the centre of the saddle rail clamp.
fatboy
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by fatboy »

Brilliant, thanks.

My current one is the 20mm and I'm looking to go back about 5mm so the Holdsworth she'll be perfect
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Brucey
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Brucey »

531colin wrote: ...It looks like the original VO post quoted layback of 30.2mm is from the centre of the seatpost stem to the centre of the saddle rail clamp.


IMV a measurement from the centreline of the seat pin is the only measurement that makes sense, in that otherwise you will have a layback that varies with seat pin diameter; whilst this could happen I don't remember seeing it. It is a shame that their measurement is to the centre of the clamp though; IMHO it should be the front of the clamp. I know that there are some nutty triathletes who want the saddle as far forwards as possible (so would want a different measurement) but they are not going to be interested in layback seat pins anyway.

The downside of the pin-centreline measurement is that it is a bit less easy to do.

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531colin
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by 531colin »

Just deduct half of 27.2 (say 14) from my numbers....
Holdsworth = 14
VO Mk 1 = 18
Kalloy = 5
....as near as you need it.
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Samuel D »

Because the seatpost is tilted from vertical in the frame, you might have to subtract slightly more than half the diameter. But seatposts vary so little in diameter that it doesn’t matter much for our comparison purposes.

I guess all of that is included in your “as near as you need it”.

531colin wrote:It looks like the original VO post quoted layback of 30.2mm is from the centre of the seatpost stem to the centre of the saddle rail clamp.

So, as you suspected, Planet X just copied and pasted that figure into the description of the revised model without checking its veracity.

The new model may nonetheless be good enough for me. I’ll measure my Ritchey Classic seatpost to be sure (nominally 25 mm layback). Unfortunately that’ll have to wait because I’m heading off on holiday.

Are these seatposts otherwise much of a muchness? Does the Planet X one come with a torque specification for the saddle clamp?

Thanks for the measurements and pictures!
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deliquium
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by deliquium »

Samuel D wrote:Are these seatposts otherwise much of a muchness? Does the Planet X one come with a torque specification for the saddle clamp?


Just checked an unused spare latest version PlanetX/'Holdsworth' :wink: seatpost in my posession and there's no indication of recommended torque.

The only stamping is "501" on top of the post where the cradle sits/adjusts
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Samuel D »

I eventually got around to measuring my Ritchey Classic seatpost using 531colin’s technique. I make the layback about 11 mm.

So the useable difference between this and the Holdsworth (11 mm versus 28 mm) is much greater than the difference suggested by the specs (25 mm versus 30.2 mm).

Would also explain why I still sometimes feel the need to sit farther back.

I’m a bit grumpy that people above are quoting prices of £13 and £21 for the seatpost, considering Planet X is now charging £30. Maybe the price yo-yos all over the place?
amediasatex
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by amediasatex »

Maybe the price yo-yos all over the place?


It does, Planet X/On One are notorious for it...

I've bought two of the above posts from them on different occasions, once @£13 and once (last month) @£21.
Manc33
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Manc33 »

I am on a 17mm layback at the moment (Thomson Elite) on a Brooks B17 and its the same old story. I keep trying to push myself back on the saddle a little and can't, feels like the corners of the saddle are digging into me.

Often you hear cries of "Get a longer stem" but its not that, its my saddle in relation to my feet, the handlebars could be four feet away and it would be the same regarding where I am sat above the pedals.

The Velo Orange at only 300mm long is going to have to do, but with only 23cm of usable seatpost sticking out thats right on the very limit on my MTB with a sloping top tube.

As for measuring this I have no idea but if people can successfully do that its surprising. I am doing such dumb stuff like moving my right leg out 90 degrees and back in, then my left leg (must be a sight to passers by) because I am trying to sit further back and can't.

Its either get off the Brooks and onto basically ANY other saddle in the world, or stay on the Brooks and get a Velo Orange seatpost, hoping 300mm is long enough.

Thats the only problem with the Thomson Elite, they don't sell one with a 25mm layback, if they did they would make a fortune. :roll: Why do we have to put up with 17mm!
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by reohn2 »

Manc 33
You don't have to put up with 17mm,a Thorn layback seatpost has 25mm and a Humpert Ergotec has 45mm,both are 400mm long posts iirc.
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JohnW
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by JohnW »

Manc33 wrote:................Why do we have to put up with 17mm![/b]


Why do we put up with steep seat-tube angles? What's your frame? (or bike, if you have a ready-built?)
Manc33
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Manc33 »

Its not the frame its the Brooks and its short rails. If I throw any other saddle on its perfect. Then I want it to be a Brooks lol.

reohn2 wrote:Manc 33You don't have to put up with 17mm,a Thorn layback seatpost has 25mm and a Humpert Ergotec has 45mm,both are 400mm long posts iirc.


The Thorn is a 1 bolt clamp and the other one clamps sideways.

Didn't there used to be an old seatpost with a lot of setback? I am not really after a lot, just more than the 17mm of the Thomson and maybe more than 25mm because it would let me have the Brooks possibly as far forward as it goes, taking stress off the back of its rails. I like how the Velo Orange isn't just 30mm setback its "30.2mm" haha.

It was like this on my last Brooks (Colt). Was sat on the rivets no matter how much messing with stems I did. That Colt was ridiculously comfortable provided you're sat on it on a layback seatpost. I'm definitely sat too far forward on this B17 (fully back) + 17mm setback. Feels weird like the pedals are slightly behind me. :x
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Re: ....the "new" Velo Orange layback seatpost?

Post by Samuel D »

Manc33, you need to measure the ‘functional setback’ of your seatpost using 531colin’s technique here. Then compare it to the numbers he gives (e.g. 28 mm for the ‘Holdsworth’ seatpost).

The published specifications aren’t much use because (a) they’re measured in-line from the centre of the clamp (of unspecified length!), but since we have our saddles near the back of the adjustment range, the limiting factor is only the position of the front of the clamp, and (b) the specifications are sometimes made up (e.g. copied and pasted from another seatpost).

Not convinced I feel small differences in pedalling action when moving the saddle fore and aft. But small differences here make big differences to how weight is distributed, i.e. how much weight is on the hands, and I certainly feel that.
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