Alternative to Jones H bar ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
gregoryoftours
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby gregoryoftours » 8 Apr 2019, 6:37pm

Tiberius wrote:Planet X 'Geoff's' back in stock....

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOGB/on ... k-in-stock

It's a bit strange, listed as lots in stock, but says on the listing that will not ship until 10 May. That's cheating a bit, surely.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 8 Apr 2019, 7:25pm

FWIW I've just bought and fitted a PlanetX "mike" handlebar :- https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOMB/on ... -handlebar for my Vagabond,despite what the PX blurb say's the backsweep is 45 degrees and is basically the same as a Jones loop bar but without the loop at the front.
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gregoryoftours
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby gregoryoftours » 8 Apr 2019, 7:33pm

For anyone interested or thinking of buying the planet X bars here are a couple of photos comparing the px bars to a genuine Jones bar. From top to bottom px "Geoff" 710mm, Jones loop 660mm (also available in 710mm) px "Mike" 630mm, and a px Mary bar (645mm, 25.4 clamp) for comparison.
IMG_20190408_191404_edited (3).jpeg

The genuine Jones bars are actually the only ones that have a 45° sweep
The "Geoff" bar has more like 50° sweep rather than the claimed 45°(maybe the new batch will be 45°?)
The "Mike" is 40° sweep. You can see the difference better in this photo with the other end of the bars held flat against the same level surface. Geoff is at the back, Jones middle, Mike front.
IMG_20190408_185831_edited (1).jpeg

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 8 Apr 2019, 8:19pm

The Mike bars I have are a genuine 45degs measured with a genuine 45degree indented Nobex square.
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gregoryoftours
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby gregoryoftours » 8 Apr 2019, 8:43pm

reohn2 wrote:The Mike bars I have are a genuine 45degs measured with a genuine 45degree indented Nobex square.

Hmm, interesting. Maybe that's the reason for the delay between batches, they may have been produced slightly differently. I received mine a couple of weeks ago. Mine are definitely a little past vertical 90° when one side is set on a level surface or in a modern window frame. I wonder if any of the batches of "Geoff" bars are bang on 45° as stated.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 8 Apr 2019, 10:36pm

gregoryoftours wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The Mike bars I have are a genuine 45degs measured with a genuine 45degree indented Nobex square.

Hmm, interesting. Maybe that's the reason for the delay between batches, they may have been produced slightly differently. I received mine a couple of weeks ago. Mine are definitely a little past vertical 90° when one side is set on a level surface or in a modern window frame. I wonder if any of the batches of "Geoff" bars are bang on 45° as stated.

I'll find out when mine arrive :)
I alread have the Alpkit Jones copy on my Longitude which is also 45degrees.
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hemo
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby hemo » 9 Apr 2019, 2:00pm

gregoryoftours wrote:
Tiberius wrote:Planet X 'Geoff's' back in stock....

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOGB/on ... k-in-stock

It's a bit strange, listed as lots in stock, but says on the listing that will not ship until 10 May. That's cheating a bit, surely.



They will have pre orders to saisfy first then I expect any bars left in stock will be available after May 10th.

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nick12
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby nick12 » 19 May 2019, 7:18pm

I ordered a pair of geoff bars from px, was interested to see how they handle. Ive been using some northroad / marybar type bars for the past year which are the same angle as the geoff bars and the position just felt right for me.
Bars arrived on friday, so had a ride out on saturday to set them up and see how they felt.
Had to add a 10mm spacer from my initial fix to get a bit of weight off my hands put on a 90mm stem reduced from the 110mm previously used.
The bars feel and handle brilliant. The 710mm giving great stability and the bike just went where i wanted it to. Handles really well.
I can see the width been a bit of a problem on some barriers on certain cycle ways and on tight single track. But all in all well chuffed with the way the bike felt and handled. The shape of the bars seem more rounded than the photo on px website and look great well pleased
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bohrsatom
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby bohrsatom » 20 May 2019, 10:14pm

nick12 wrote:. The shape of the bars seem more rounded than the photo on px website and look great well pleased


What grips are you using?

Mine came Friday too, just need to get them fitted!

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nick12
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby nick12 » 21 May 2019, 8:16pm

I used standard size trips at the weekend and they where ok but have put on foam grips cut to lenght but not been properly tested yet. Havent tested them out on a tough climb yet. Shall hopefully do that at the weekend.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 22 May 2019, 9:59am

I got my PX Geoff bars on Monday they have a backsweep of 47degrees,nice finish and look to be excellent quality,they feel a little too wide at 710mm but I'll test ride them for a bit first,there's enough room in the handgrip area to saw a bit off if want to :) .
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slowster
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby slowster » 22 May 2019, 12:52pm

Many of the bike builders who fit Jones loop bars to their bikes fail to set them up properly, and just fit standard length grips. As a result there is a large section of the bar between the weld and the brake levers that has no grip or tape on it. That set up does not exploit the full length of the bars. Moreover, Jeff Jones' instructions advise to place the brake and shifter levers close to the weld, but not actually touching the weld, rather than having the levers outboard which will increase the load and strain on the bars and the weld, i.e. the very widest part of the bars is intended for riding in a more relaxed upright position, whereas when riding over very rough terrain the hands should be further inboard covering the brake levers.

If you are just riding on the road and gentle off road terrain, this is going to be less important than if you ride very rough off road. Neverthless, even if you are just riding on the road, putting the levers well inboard allows you to move your hands over a wider area and vary your grip and position on the bars, as well as varying how upright or leaned forward you are.

The reason why so many builders don't fit the bars properly, is probably because they don't bother to get the right grips. There is not a lot of choice of extra long grips (although I guess you could just use bar tape instead), and apart from Jeff Jones' own branded grips, the obvious ones are ESI Chunky XXL or ESI Extra Chunky XXL.

reohn2 wrote:I got my PX Geoff bars on Monday they have a backsweep of 47degrees,nice finish and look to be excellent quality,they feel a little too wide at 710mm but I'll test ride them for a bit first,there's enough room in the handgrip area to saw a bit off if want to :) .

I would recommend you set the bars up as above with extra long grips and ride it for a good while before you consider getting the hacksaw out. It's possible that you might decide to change your stem with the bars. Jeff Jones typically recommends much shorter stems with his bars. That is usually also in conjunction with his frames, but his frames also typically have a very short reach as well, albeit that they will also have a steering geometry designed for using his bars with a short stem.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 22 May 2019, 6:04pm

Slowster
Thanks for taking the trouble to advise on the set up,considering you didn't approve of the Jones copy,very gracious of you IMo.
Also thanks for mentioning the Chunky XXL and extra Chunky XXL grips,I was longing at some only the other day with the loop bars in mind,do you have first hand(sorry)experience of them and if so what's your opinion?
I take your point about the long grip area,I rode 40miles with them the today 70% offroad and found the extra length really useful,with 11cm stem on my Vagabond which has a 593mm ETT they're spot on for me.
I also have a an Aplkit Jones copy on my Longitude but the grip area isn't as long as the PX Geoff's and I found I immediately preferred the latter.
I've just ordered another pair of PX Geoff's to replace the Alpkit ones :)
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nick12
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby nick12 » 22 May 2019, 6:29pm

I initially (after watching jeff jones videos) set my shifters and lever as suggested just shy of the weld. But i can not see my gear indicator. Which isnt too big a deal . After i moved them back an inch to see the gear indicator i then could hold the bars on the weld giving me a nice position to hold the bars which i couldnt do with the gear shifter in the way. And i still have 160mm of grip.
Its what works for you and how it feels for you that matters.

slowster
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby slowster » 22 May 2019, 7:17pm

reohn2 wrote:Also thanks for mentioning the Chunky XXL and extra Chunky XXL grips,I was longing at some only the other day with the loop bars in mind,do you have first hand(sorry)experience of them and if so what's your opinion?

I've got Jones own brand H Grips on my bars, but I had the chance to look at the ESI grips in a shop recently, and they seem to be a very popular grip (certainly for ordinary riser bars in the standard grip length and size). The ESI grips are silicone foam. They have a smooth surface and feel very squishy (probably more so in the retail packaging without their being fitted on a rigid handlebar tube). I suspect they might prove superior to the Jones' grips for vibration damping in the event of a very long day in the saddle over very rough ground.

The Jones' grips are EVA foam and are much more rigid/deform very little when gripped (which does not necessarily mean that they do not provide good shock absorption), and have a slightly roughened surface texture. Jones also offers another, more expensive version of the grips made with 'Kraton' rubber (whatever that is) and I cannot comment on those, although I suspect they might be more like the ESI silicone foam.

I had assumed that the Jones grips would be difficult to get hold of in the UK, hence my suggestion of the XXL versions of the ESI grips, but it seems that Bothy Bikes are selling them online (I cannot provide a link because my antivirus software doesn't like their website, so you'll need to Google it yourself), and Keep Pedalling are offering the Kraton version online for £36 (I guess they might also have the EVA version in the shop).

Having used the Jones EVA grips, I like them a lot, and I am not particularly tempted to try the others, so they would be my preference. However, if you have hand or wrist problems and/or do very long punishing rides, I can imagine that you might prefer the ESI Extra Chunky grips.

Incidentally, one thing I very much like about Jeff Jones is his attention to detail, not just in his frames and how they are designed and set up, but even down to the small things. So his grips come with extra wide plugs with a captive bolt, rather than the cheaper and simpler (and smaller) push in plug (as supplied with the ESI grips). I seem to remember that when I started cycling, bike shops would have a 'point of sale' card strip of similar bar end plugs with a captive bolt, which came in either black or white, and which you would buy separately from the rolls of cloth bar tape. It was and is a good design which just works, unlike the push in plugs which often fell out/disappeared.

reohn2 wrote:with 11cm stem on my Vagabond which has a 593mm ETT they're spot on for me.

Even though they felt good with your 11cm stem, if you have a shorter stem available, I would strongly recommend you try it, even if only to see what it feels like. I'm using a 70cm stem, and with the bars I have a body position which is probably not too dissimilar from those photographs of cyclists over a hundred years ago with an upright body and hands quite close to the body when gripping the bars at the widest points, and it feels very comfortable. Obviously I can lean forward more by simply gripping the bars at different points.

reohn2 wrote:Thanks for taking the trouble to advise on the set up,considering you didn't approve of the Jones copy,very gracious of you IMo.

I was a bit too forthright about that, but I was trying (and probably failing) to make a bigger point about how things like design rights protection etc. is skewed against small businesses and innovators, and too much in favour of big corporates like Specialized (and even Planet X at the smaller end of the scale) who can afford to implement aggressive and sometimes unfair business practices (and pay for lawyers to defend and implement those practices), especially now that the manufacturing is done by others in China where it becomes impossible/impractical to enforce intellectual property laws.