Alternative to Jones H bar ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
slowster
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby slowster » 22 May 2019, 8:07pm

Something also to be aware of is that the techniques of fitting the grips vary. ESI grips can be installed using iso-propyl alcohol, as shown in this video, and I've read that compressed air can be used. I've also seen mention of hairspray being used, but I don't know whether that is to reduce friction when sliding them onto the bars, or to provide adhesion to stop the grips rotating and slipping once fitted.

The Jones EVA grips are supposed to be installed using 3M Spraymount or similar. I think that is because otherwise the grips will be likely to rotate on the bars without the adhesion provided by the Spraymount. Spraymount is extremely quick to dry, so there is a knack to using it to fit the grips. That knack is to do it as quickly as possible: get the bars in position and ready, e.g. fitted on the bike and with the front wheel firmly between your legs, spray the Spraymount inside the grip and immediately place the grip over the bar end and pull it on the bars all the way (towards you). Don't be tentative or hesitant.

If you spray the Spraymount and then take your time to get in position to push/pull the grip onto the bars, it will have dried and become too sticky. In that event, spray some more Spraymount inside the grip and put the grip on while the second application of glue is still liquid.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 23 May 2019, 10:06am

Slowster
Just orderd a pair of the ESI grips from here:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESI-XXL-Extr ... ect=mobile
I've got a double wrap of bartape on ATM but thought the ESI's might be better.
In the past I've found I can get any grips on with either a bit of soapy water or even a bit of spit on the bar,which don't slip after the water/spit dries :)
Regarding the reach IME it's a personal thing but with Alpkit Jones copies and the PX Mike bars I've found the normal riding position(where I can reach both brakes and gears) is best level with the steerer tube/steering axis or just in front of it and heightwise level with the saddle or a little higher.
The Longitude's ETT is 610mm(medium sized frame) opposed to the Vagabond's 593mm,the Longitude is set up with grips level with the steerer,Vagabond's are 10mm in front of the steerer.This gives me a very comfortable upright riding position and a more aero position on the loop or in front of the controls with thumbs tucked in front of the welds between loop and stem bar :)

EDIT:- just a note on the plugs,I have a pair of those JJ type plugs somewhere,I can't remember where they came from :?
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reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 26 May 2019, 11:17am

Regarding grips,I've just watched this video https://youtu.be/YGwBvzvIhhs in it JJ mentions he uses Chunky grips on his bars and thinks they complement them well.mine are in the post I'll report back when I get them.
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slowster
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Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby slowster » 26 May 2019, 12:07pm

That video was made in 2013, before Jeff Jones introduced his own grips. He still sells the ESI versions in addition to his own on his website, which makes sense because they are quite different in feel and squishyness/rigidity, and people's preferences will vary.

With regard to the bar plugs, given the comments on the website about the bar plugs provided with the EVA grips, I suspect that Jeff identified the small push-in plugs as a shortcoming of the ESI grips based on his own experience, and that prompted him to design the very wide plugs with a captive bolt for his own grips. I've got a few scratches on the plugs on my bike from occasionally leaning it against a wall etc. - if instead the bike had been fitted with smaller plugs I suspect that the ends of the foam grips would have been abraded and started to tear by now. Jeff Jones now offers the plugs on their own on his website, and I presume that is in response to demand from customers who prefer the ESI grips but also want larger plugs.

You mention your ETT lengths - for comparison mine is approximately 600mm and I am 5' 10". Incidentally, Jeff Jones recommends angling the bars at 10 to 15 degrees, and I think that can make a surprising difference to the overall feel of the bike set-up with the bars.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 26 May 2019, 1:36pm

slowster wrote:That video was made in 2013, before Jeff Jones introduced his own grips. He still sells the ESI versions in addition to his own on his website, which makes sense because they are quite different in feel and squishyness/rigidity, and people's preferences will vary.

I was aware it was an older video,but thought maybe his grips are rebranded Chunkys of one form or another.

With regard to the bar plugs, given the comments on the website about the bar plugs provided with the EVA grips, I suspect that Jeff identified the small push-in plugs as a shortcoming of the ESI grips based on his own experience, and that prompted him to design the very wide plugs with a captive bolt for his own grips. I've got a few scratches on the plugs on my bike from occasionally leaning it against a wall etc. - if instead the bike had been fitted with smaller plugs I suspect that the ends of the foam grips would have been abraded and started to tear by now. Jeff Jones now offers the plugs on their own on his website, and I presume that is in response to demand from customers who prefer the ESI grips but also want larger plugs
.
I take your point about the end plugs and think you and JJ are right about the protection of the grips with a wider plug and with being retained with a screw/wedge design there's less chance of losing one in a fall or crash.

You mention your ETT lengths - for comparison mine is approximately 600mm and I am 5' 10". Incidentally, Jeff Jones recommends angling the bars at 10 to 15 degrees, and I think that can make a surprising difference to the overall feel of the bike set-up with the bars.

I'm 1.83(6ft)and my Longitude is a medium with a 604mm ETT,could've got a Large with a 615 ETT but as there was no toe overlap even with 2.4inch knobblies and mudguards I decided the medium frame was long enough and had more SO.The long grip area on the PX Geoff bar reduces the reach slightly compared with the Alpkit ones,so I'll try a 70mm stem suck it and see.

I wasn't aware of JJ's recommendations but came up with almost that same angle after a short ride with the PX 'Mike' bar,which has the same reach and backsweep within 2degrees of the PX Geoffs,finding that in the normal riding position if the grips fit flat across the palm with no pressure on either the index finger/thumb web area or on the heel of the palm of the hand they're perfectly angled for all day comfort :D

EDIT:- Just to add,the important thing to remember with this type of handlebar it seems to me,is to understand that it's predominantly designed for comfort riding in the saddle which matters a lot.
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nick12
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby nick12 » 26 May 2019, 8:10pm

I have given my PX geoff bars a good testing this weekend. I fitted butterfly bar foam grips which are not as chunky as the jones grips but worked fine and felt comfortable enough to me.
At £ 2.50 a pair they are fine and cheap to replace. They got soaked on saturday night but didnt move on the bars on sunday morning and didnt feel wet.
I wanted to test them on a real climb and some offroad riding. I rode from malton to Rosedale abbey and did the Rosedale chimney bank climb on my loaded mtb tourer. What a challenge. Had trouble keeping the front end down but made it to the top in one go.
Cycled the old railway line bridleway to the north. Then in the morning rode down hill all the way to bents lane,fantastic ride,and great bars.
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reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 27 May 2019, 8:42pm

Sounds like you had a good w/end :D
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nick12
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby nick12 » 27 May 2019, 9:55pm

Had a great ride thanks reohn2. Been going to do it for a While and wanted to test the bars and new mondial tryes to see how they performed both on and off road, they roll pretty good on the road and did just fine offroad. Got a tour coming up so was good to test the bike out.

bohrsatom
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby bohrsatom » 31 May 2019, 5:42pm

My Jones grips arrived earlier in the week and I tried to install my new bars earlier today, but all my cables are too short
Going to be a big faff to replace 4 cables and outers :cry:

slowster
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby slowster » 31 May 2019, 6:27pm

bohrsatom wrote:My Jones grips arrived earlier in the week and I tried to install my new bars earlier today, but all my cables are too short
Going to be a big faff to replace 4 cables and outers :cry:

BTDTGTTS. The cables exit the brake levers at a similar angle to the sweep of the bars, so they need to follow a much bigger and longer curve than would be necessary with an ordinary riser bar.

If you think that in future you might want to strap a bikepacking type bag or anything else to the underside of the handlebars, then the cables might need to be even longer so that they can be pushed aside/down to make way for the bag.

My brake levers came with a standard Shimano MTB cable set, and the inners (1000mm front and 2050mm rear) are not really long enough, with the result that the cables have too tight a bend close to the levers. Fortunately my gear cables were OK. I'm using it as an excuse to fit compressionless cables with polished stainless inners. The Jagwire Mountain Pro set has 1500mm and 2800mm inners and a 3000mm length of outer.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 31 May 2019, 7:17pm

nick12 wrote:Had a great ride thanks reohn2. Been going to do it for a While and wanted to test the bars and new mondial tryes to see how they performed both on and off road, they roll pretty good on the road and did just fine offroad. Got a tour coming up so was good to test the bike out.

:D
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reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 31 May 2019, 7:41pm

I had my first ride this week with these grips:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESI-XXL-Extr ... ect=mobile
I'm suitably impressed
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reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jun 2019, 12:59pm

The Jones copies are proving extremely good in greatly lessening fatigue of an Osteoarthtitis riddled individual such as me,and lessening after ride pain in my replacement hip joint(which wasn't extreme by any stretch but is practically non existent now :) )due to their greater variety of riding positions,but mainly with the ability to sit more upright when needs be,especially when descending very rough trails on my unsuspended MTB.
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nick12
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby nick12 » 7 Jun 2019, 3:34pm

I noticed that you have or have tried several types of bars resembeling the jones bars reohn2. Would you say the geoff bars are the best for comfort?. I love mine they give a good upright riding position and several other good hand positions.
I also listened to slowsters suggestion on the 10/15 degree angle and he is right it made it even better for me.
Ive a week tour starting on sunday looking forward to riding the bike, even though the forcast isnt looking too good.

reohn2
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Re: Alternative to Jones H bar ?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jun 2019, 7:21pm

nick12 wrote:I noticed that you have or have tried several types of bars resembeling the jones bars reohn2. Would you say the geoff bars are the best for comfort?. I love mine they give a good upright riding position and several other good hand positions.
I also listened to slowsters suggestion on the 10/15 degree angle and he is right it made it even better for me.
Ive a week tour starting on sunday looking forward to riding the bike, even though the forcast isnt looking too good.

Yes the PX Geoff bars are the best I've tried for both comfort and control*,there at least six different hand positions two of the most used I can reach brakes and gear change and one further position where I can reach brakes and up change levers on the gears.
The angle of the 'bars is crucial for all day comfort,I've just checked the angle mine are set at with an adjustable spirit level and unsurprisingly they're at 15degrees from the horizontal as per Jeff Jones/Slowster's recommendations,though both pair,one on my Genesis Vagabond the other on my Genesis Longitude,were dialled in whilst riding to provide even pressure across the palm of my hands.

*proven yesterday on the Longitude whilst descending a very rough 1km track,though more a stream than a track,at speed off an exposed moor in a torrential,and I mean torrential,thunderstorm(Darwin moor down to Sunnyhurst for those who know it).
Totally in control and safe sat off the rear of the saddle riding on pedals holding the ends of the 'bar.I was soaked to the skin :shock:

PS,enjoy the tour :D
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