I see it mentioned a lot in my '20th century British cycling' readings, and some pictures, results, etc. in my old 40s-80s CTC Gazettes/Cycletouring magazines; sometimes with a little description, but never a 'full story' of just how it worked, what sorts of questions there were, how skills were tested, if there were regional sub-events or versions, etc.
About the best overview I can find is here: http://www.amkirby.co.uk/PDF/RN15.pdf (see page 6)
It sounds like fun!
Of course searching the (former) CTC website gives nothing of use. Did it 'evolve' into something else, or is it still going on? Have i-phones and gps made people think those sorts of skills are now 'outsourceable' to komputers and 'you can just look it up when you want to know'!?
Anybody here participated and have memories or photos to share?
What I'd really like to know is about the whole 'event'! - how many people participated, how much they 'prepared', how fierce the competition, what the rules were, some of the questions or skills tested and how, etc. And how is changed over time. Anybody ever get caught cheating?
... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
-
eileithyia
- Posts: 8399
- Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 6:46pm
- Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
I gave it a go once and a friend got through to the final. There were lots elements to it and some were quite 'subjective' was our feeling.
You would be tested on contents of emergency kit you had:- tools 1st aid kit etc.
Map reading, you would be given a set of start co-ordinates and finish co-ordinates, with instructions such as do not go past a windmill....... you would have to devise a route and cycle it.
I remember riding a marshalled route, where various things were tested:- ie there was a short off road section where your off road cycling skills were assessed. While waiting for rider in front to complete that section another marshal asked us some general knowledge cycling questions. On one segment a man and his daughter were 'stuck' on a narrow bridge.... ( I had heard about a similar scenario from another contestant in another event) .. known as the 'courtesy test' I enquired whether they required any help (this apparently was 'wrong' as we were supposed to say excuse me please can i get passed... thank you).
On another section you would be stopped all, timing devices covered and you were required to tell the marshal how long you thought you would complete the next 'however far' segment. This was written on a piece of paper and you handed it to the next marshal, and it was marked for accuracy....
You would also have an observation test at the end of one riding sections, you would be asked questions about various aspects of the route.... one that leaps to mind 'What was the distance to Coventry on the signpost at such and such junction'
I think you had to be quite 'savvy' and understand how they worked, you were 'on test' from the moment you arrived, so you were even expected to greet the organiser the 'right way' when he turned up....
My friend who got thru to the final was quite perplexed by it all..... also a nurse, but she had the 'wrong' contents in her 1st aid kit, and omitted to have a spare glue in her repair kit.... in case the first one had dried up......
She had been ill in the weeks leading up to the final, her husband was stood by a marshal on one section waiting for her, when marshal started to pack up to go, Dave pointed out his wife was still on her way and she was a bit slow due to some recent illness... and received no sympathy whatsoever.....
Very odd competition.
You would be tested on contents of emergency kit you had:- tools 1st aid kit etc.
Map reading, you would be given a set of start co-ordinates and finish co-ordinates, with instructions such as do not go past a windmill....... you would have to devise a route and cycle it.
I remember riding a marshalled route, where various things were tested:- ie there was a short off road section where your off road cycling skills were assessed. While waiting for rider in front to complete that section another marshal asked us some general knowledge cycling questions. On one segment a man and his daughter were 'stuck' on a narrow bridge.... ( I had heard about a similar scenario from another contestant in another event) .. known as the 'courtesy test' I enquired whether they required any help (this apparently was 'wrong' as we were supposed to say excuse me please can i get passed... thank you).
On another section you would be stopped all, timing devices covered and you were required to tell the marshal how long you thought you would complete the next 'however far' segment. This was written on a piece of paper and you handed it to the next marshal, and it was marked for accuracy....
You would also have an observation test at the end of one riding sections, you would be asked questions about various aspects of the route.... one that leaps to mind 'What was the distance to Coventry on the signpost at such and such junction'
I think you had to be quite 'savvy' and understand how they worked, you were 'on test' from the moment you arrived, so you were even expected to greet the organiser the 'right way' when he turned up....
My friend who got thru to the final was quite perplexed by it all..... also a nurse, but she had the 'wrong' contents in her 1st aid kit, and omitted to have a spare glue in her repair kit.... in case the first one had dried up......
She had been ill in the weeks leading up to the final, her husband was stood by a marshal on one section waiting for her, when marshal started to pack up to go, Dave pointed out his wife was still on her way and she was a bit slow due to some recent illness... and received no sympathy whatsoever.....
Very odd competition.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
BCTC was for riders of solo bicycles only, a thorn in the side of some of us which you will understand from your recent new interest.
Rules - saddlebags or panniers were expected, a musette as a sole bag would be marked down. Spare parts, comprehensive tools (these were days before tiny multi-tools) and first aid kit were checked and scored.
You were given a route by grid reference points, this was for the main section to test your map reading. Part of the route would entail some off road riding where your riding skill would be judged; on a steep hill your climbing would be assessed - you were marked down severely for getting out of the saddle or choosing a wrong point to stop to walk (perhaps on a bend, truly a wrong place). A point would be selected where a skilled map reader would make a correct judgement but one less able would not and would be seen and marked down. All of these observers scoring you would be hidden so you could not see them. Other than the main section there was a pace judging where you were given a pair of map references and asked to predict how long it would take to get between them, your watch was then confiscated and off you set. At the end were the observation questions, which is where I normally failed. Questions were a long the lines of "where did you see fighting cocks" (easy, a pub sign in village "a"), "what is Mrs Smith doing on Monday" (probably a special notice at some church you passed). Then there were the general touring questions such as identifying a cloud formation.
I rode several local heats for fun (1970s and 80s), never expecting to achieve much. The knowledge and observation of minutia of the national winners was staggering. Local heats were just for fun for almost all of us, and preparation could only be checking you had all the kit required for inspection (had to be neat and tidy).
Rules - saddlebags or panniers were expected, a musette as a sole bag would be marked down. Spare parts, comprehensive tools (these were days before tiny multi-tools) and first aid kit were checked and scored.
You were given a route by grid reference points, this was for the main section to test your map reading. Part of the route would entail some off road riding where your riding skill would be judged; on a steep hill your climbing would be assessed - you were marked down severely for getting out of the saddle or choosing a wrong point to stop to walk (perhaps on a bend, truly a wrong place). A point would be selected where a skilled map reader would make a correct judgement but one less able would not and would be seen and marked down. All of these observers scoring you would be hidden so you could not see them. Other than the main section there was a pace judging where you were given a pair of map references and asked to predict how long it would take to get between them, your watch was then confiscated and off you set. At the end were the observation questions, which is where I normally failed. Questions were a long the lines of "where did you see fighting cocks" (easy, a pub sign in village "a"), "what is Mrs Smith doing on Monday" (probably a special notice at some church you passed). Then there were the general touring questions such as identifying a cloud formation.
I rode several local heats for fun (1970s and 80s), never expecting to achieve much. The knowledge and observation of minutia of the national winners was staggering. Local heats were just for fun for almost all of us, and preparation could only be checking you had all the kit required for inspection (had to be neat and tidy).
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
IIRC not long after joining CTC I sort of took part in one regional heat (1987) without having any concept of what was going on. It didn't capture my interest.
I can also recall being involved in the observation side of things (1988 final), which I found even less enjoyable. A frequent comment around the DA was that the BCTC would never find Britain's greatest Cycletourist because they would be out touring, not competing.
You might like this: 1988 BCTC Final Handbook.
I can also recall being involved in the observation side of things (1988 final), which I found even less enjoyable. A frequent comment around the DA was that the BCTC would never find Britain's greatest Cycletourist because they would be out touring, not competing.
You might like this: 1988 BCTC Final Handbook.
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
Wow! It sounds very proper English, at least as I imagine it. I can imagine the Germans would like this sort of thing, but the Soviets would have had anarchy! (and the russians nowadays, but not the Estonians). Americans would have been specialists in poorly worded questions and 'wrong' answers on technicalities, depending on how popular you were with the judges...
That handbook is great, thanks!
I'd like to hear more of the questions that people remember, anecdotes, etc...
I maybe wouldn't do too well in this myself, or maybe would, or maybe wouldn't enter even since I don't care for competition (zero interest in commercial sports, and I think like my two Cats on most things: screw it, I can do this better and have more fun my own way!), but still it would be fun to 'test' myself on the various things as I went along.
Of course nowadays in americaland (elsewhere too I suppose) you'd get shot, 'turned in', arrested, beaten up, etc. for paying so much attention to the world around you...but catatonically dazing into the i-phone (even whilst driving, walking, or cycling!); OK, that's fine and normal!
I did read about the 'british-cycle-quest' on the CTC main website wondering if it was the renamed BCTC.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/british-cycle-quest
... It sounds sort of fun. Perhaps I'll have to make up my own ACTC (Alaska ctc) or UPCTC (Upper Peninsula [Michigan] ctc), but then I guess I'd already know the questions beforehand...
That handbook is great, thanks!
I'd like to hear more of the questions that people remember, anecdotes, etc...
I maybe wouldn't do too well in this myself, or maybe would, or maybe wouldn't enter even since I don't care for competition (zero interest in commercial sports, and I think like my two Cats on most things: screw it, I can do this better and have more fun my own way!), but still it would be fun to 'test' myself on the various things as I went along.
Of course nowadays in americaland (elsewhere too I suppose) you'd get shot, 'turned in', arrested, beaten up, etc. for paying so much attention to the world around you...but catatonically dazing into the i-phone (even whilst driving, walking, or cycling!); OK, that's fine and normal!
I did read about the 'british-cycle-quest' on the CTC main website wondering if it was the renamed BCTC.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/british-cycle-quest
... It sounds sort of fun. Perhaps I'll have to make up my own ACTC (Alaska ctc) or UPCTC (Upper Peninsula [Michigan] ctc), but then I guess I'd already know the questions beforehand...
-
Philip Benstead
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 7:06pm
- Location: Victoria , London
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
I once took part in a heat where on the map reading section you rode around a hadlow tower; part of the test later was to identify the location on a map of where a photographs was taken of the tower. I made an error and missed part of the route. Despite that i was the only competitor to identify all the 8 locations. I was part particularly surprise because a fellow competitor was a professional photographer.
The organizer almost had a fit
Another section of the competition was to ride around some cones slalom style, i was only competitor not to touch any,
I came nowhere in the compertiton. But I enjoyed doing them.
The organizer almost had a fit
Another section of the competition was to ride around some cones slalom style, i was only competitor not to touch any,
I came nowhere in the compertiton. But I enjoyed doing them.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
Ah Yes, Phil, and I see according to Gaz's link above (or below, depending on your layout), you were the '1983 BCTC Final Secretary', so was hoping you'd chime in (the benefit of using real names here I guess).
I guess this sort of thing might still be fun say as an event between a few local clubs .. of course I wouldn't really know since no clubs here, at least for riding in the CTC style.
I've been doing some additional reading on the 'british-cycle-quest' too - at the very least a fun way to vicariously cycle the UK from Ausland and learn some British geography...
It's probably too old-fashioned for the 'new' CTC, but still somebody ought to write an article on the BCTC history/story for the 'Cycling' (or another) magazine. That'd even convince me to maybe struggle (just once, and with great aggravation) with the godawful 'issu' website to attempt to read it.
Somebody let me know, by the way, if such a BCTC story was written already... I can maybe get a scan via interlibrary loan (or kindly CTC member)!
It was just such a frequently mentioned thing in the mid-late 20th century CTC magazines and books that I figured I ought to learn about it.
I guess this sort of thing might still be fun say as an event between a few local clubs .. of course I wouldn't really know since no clubs here, at least for riding in the CTC style.
I've been doing some additional reading on the 'british-cycle-quest' too - at the very least a fun way to vicariously cycle the UK from Ausland and learn some British geography...
It's probably too old-fashioned for the 'new' CTC, but still somebody ought to write an article on the BCTC history/story for the 'Cycling' (or another) magazine. That'd even convince me to maybe struggle (just once, and with great aggravation) with the godawful 'issu' website to attempt to read it.
Somebody let me know, by the way, if such a BCTC story was written already... I can maybe get a scan via interlibrary loan (or kindly CTC member)!
It was just such a frequently mentioned thing in the mid-late 20th century CTC magazines and books that I figured I ought to learn about it.
-
Daniel Fox
- Posts: 40
- Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 5:54pm
Re: ... about the CTC's British Cycle Tourist Competition?
A group of us from SE Gwent (Caldicot) had a go at it in 1980 at the event in Raglan.
I was thirteen at the time and it was tricky. I remember the pacing event, and the observation challenge.
We had been told we would be asked questions enroute, "about cycling".
Turning a corner a Marshall stops me with a selection of wild flowers to identify - no hope!
Then "What is a pipistrelle?" I had a good look around my bike before giving up and being told it was a bat.
A good day out but a bit challenging for me.
I was thirteen at the time and it was tricky. I remember the pacing event, and the observation challenge.
We had been told we would be asked questions enroute, "about cycling".
Turning a corner a Marshall stops me with a selection of wild flowers to identify - no hope!
Then "What is a pipistrelle?" I had a good look around my bike before giving up and being told it was a bat.
A good day out but a bit challenging for me.