Bicycle restrictor

[meic]

the Goldwing rider will have to turn its handlebars. And that's a Goldwing!

Turning the handlebars will not help as it will be the fairing that is that wide, not the bars.
However if you had turned the bars to get through, I would imagine it would take about 4 strong people to get it through as it would need lifting when not pointed in the direction that it was going.

Also you were treating those widths as if both vehicles had the same profile, fortunately for A frame designers the wide part of motorcycles is a bit higher than for mobility scooters.
Unfortunately it is similar to that of cycles.

A frames certainly prevent me from getting my BMW motorbike through, I am not sure about the trails bike.
With a push cycle you can manipulate a bike through the frames at arms length even a 125cc motorbike is heavy enough that you have to be close to it to manipulate the bars through any A frame and the A frame keeps you at arms length.
So as a challenge you can get them through but they certainly are a good deterrent, just as they are a pretty good deterrent for a pushbike, however struggling 15kg of bike through is much easier than trying to get 80kg of a light motorbike through.
Imagine, you have the motorbike bars through the A frame but are stuck behind the bike filling the hole, holding on to it wondering how to get to the other side and finish the job.

[mjr]

Also you were treating those widths as if both vehicles had the same profile, fortunately for A frame designers the wide part of motorcycles is a bit higher than for mobility scooters.

Often, but not always (some have roll bars, others have larger head restraints with projecting mirrors), and (rightly or wrongly) the legal definition is a box shape AFAIK.

So as a challenge you can get them through but they certainly are a good deterrent, just as they are a pretty good deterrent for a pushbike, however struggling 15kg of bike through is much easier than trying to get 80kg of a light motorbike through.

Ah, get away with you and your lightweight 15kg bike and no luggage

[tatanab]

Unfortunately it is similar to that of BIcycles.

Corrected that for you. Imagine a signed route for lorries that turns out to be accessible only to 7.5 tonners. That is the situation that those of us who ride tandems/tricycles/tandem tricycles etc can find ourselves in. Yes I know that we represent a small proportion of the cycling world, but in this PC country vanishingly small percentages of the population get all sorts of concessions (In case of misunderstanding, that is said very much tongue in cheek).

One place I lived in the USA, proximity to a cycle/pedestriam/converted railway route was seen as a positive when selling a house, and they did not have any of these sorts of access restrictors, just concrete posts and no motorcycle problems I was aware of.

[meic]

I get your point, as I have a tandem and a trailer, however the height of the bars is the same (as an aside, I bet that the butterfly bars on my tourer are wider and higher than anything you ride ) and except for those on recumbents we share a similar profile to the motorbikes as compared to disability wagons.

[Bmblbzzz]

At the Bath end of the Bristol-Bath Railway Path, by the Dolphin pub, there used to be a restriction that was a low, stone wall slalom. The gap in it was so narrow that I could not ride through it on a road bike with panniers. I imagine it would have been totally impassable to a trike or anyone towing a two-wheeled trailer, probably also to most recumbents.

It's not there anymore (I remember it from the early 1990s), it's been replaced with a simple bollard on the bridge where the path connects with Brassmill Lane, but it's existence and the possible reason for its removal (I don't know the circumstances surrounding its removal) hint at another problem; cyclists and other legitimate path users will take ways round these obstacles and sometimes those diversions can be dangerous. In this case, there was a narrow gap between wall and river on a sloping, grassy bank. I took that myself sometimes. I don't know if anyone ever fell in bypassing the slalom, but people have been drowned falling from that stretch of path. In most cases, of course, there won't be anything so dramatic, but people will find themselves forced on to busy roads.

[pwa]

I think we can all agree about one thing: as the motorcycle problem appears to diminish in specific locations it is desirable that obstacles put there to impede motorcycles are removed, or replaced with ones that just make clear that it is not a road. The long term aim should be a culture of compliance.

[tyreon]

Wonderful sighting today as I tried to go thru the A gates I now try to avoid. Other side of A gate a mother and some double-wide buggy. Looked an expensive job and with her looked like her father. As we both arrived at the same time we didn't know who should go first. I guess she thought she might be slower. She was dismantling her buggy with her father...and another man. From what I saw the idea was to raise the cradle up and over the A bars,5' high. Wottacarryon! Comedy-capers. Luckily one kid was now being carried by Grandpa. I guess if the other gentleman was going to get the carriage over the A frame the kid would have to be laid on the pavement!! I thought its like the problem take-fox-over-water-with-egss...hope you know the conundrum. I managed to get thru with some effort. What's it for she asked me. I said motorcyclists. But I'd never seen any motorcylists go thru the 15 yard alley in 15 years of going there. A true classic for me,should be introduced into the Punch and Judy routine!!

[gloomyandy]

But I'd never seen any motorcylists go thru the 15 yard alley in 15 years of going there. A true classic for me,should be introduced into the Punch and Judy routine!!

Must be working then! Sorry...

[RickH]

Wonderful sighting today as I tried to go thru the A gates I now try to avoid. Other side of A gate a mother and some double-wide buggy. Looked an expensive job and with her looked like her father. As we both arrived at the same time we didn't know who should go first. I guess she thought she might be slower. She was dismantling her buggy with her father...and another man. From what I saw the idea was to raise the cradle up and over the A bars,5' high. Wottacarryon! Comedy-capers. Luckily one kid was now being carried by Grandpa. I guess if the other gentleman was going to get the carriage over the A frame the kid would have to be laid on the pavement!! I thought its like the problem take-fox-over-water-with-egss...hope you know the conundrum. I managed to get thru with some effort. What's it for she asked me. I said motorcyclists. But I'd never seen any motorcylists go thru the 15 yard alley in 15 years of going there. A true classic for me,should be introduced into the Punch and Judy routine!!

As a slight OT observation: double width buggies have always been awkward contraptions - they don't fit through many doorways either (they are probably wider than the official wheelchair/mobility scooter accessibility width) & you'd probably spend half your time walking in the road rather than on the pavement where cars are parked with their wheels on the kerb. From my observation (which includes helping out at a weekly toddler group plus minding small grandchildren regularly) is that most people these days opt for the one-in-front-of-the-other configuration if they get a double buggy.

Rick.

[Vorpal]

I never bought a double buggy. I used my bike trailer. I did, on a couple of occasions borrow a double buggy from a neighbor (who was a child minder) when I needed something that would fold down. On some of the previous threads about anti-cycling gates, there are pictures of Trailer stuck in an A-frame gate.

[Bicycler]

This is understandable because you barely need to slow on an aggressive fast road bike with 39cm handlebars set near the low-end of the height range, but it's an agility challenge to get a stately sit-up bike through most (I have both).

or a mountain bike. They are a particular hazard for users of bar ends.

I think we can all agree about one thing: as the motorcycle problem appears to diminish in specific locations it is desirable that obstacles put there to impede motorcycles are removed, or replaced with ones that just make clear that it is not a road. The long term aim should be a culture of compliance.

We probably can all agree on that. Though, if we agree on that, we should all be able to agree that motorcycle barriers shouldn't be installed unless a motorcycle problem exists. I have some (limited) sympathy for using motorcycle barriers in those particular places where there is a current problem with motorcycle use. Unfortunately they seem to be installed almost by default as a result of council policies and local Nimbyism.

In truth, I haven't seen any of the A/K frames on any of the new local paths. Maybe a change of current policy isn't needed. Perhaps we're just dealing with the legacy of previous misguided policies.

[AlaninWales]

With a push cycle you can manipulate a bike through the frames at arms length .

Which is fine for you or I as I am (and presumably you are if you are happy to do this) able-bodied enough to do so. But the need to do this unfairly disadvantages both the less agile/strong and those who would want to carry their shopping with them, which means only those able to handle their 'bikes at arms' length and assertive enough to repeatedly do so will cycle. People wonder why we have the image we do of cyclists in this country? We get the cyclists our society promotes: Young, aggressive males with an "Audi driver" sense of self worth predominate. This brings its own problems to society and the attitudes society has towards cyclists. Restrictors such as A-frames are both a symptom and a cause.

[pwa]

With a push cycle you can manipulate a bike through the frames at arms length .

Which is fine for you or I as I am (and presumably you are if you are happy to do this) able-bodied enough to do so. But the need to do this unfairly disadvantages both the less agile/strong and those who would want to carry their shopping with them, which means only those able to handle their 'bikes at arms' length and assertive enough to repeatedly do so will cycle. People wonder why we have the image we do of cyclists in this country? We get the cyclists our society promotes: Young, aggressive males with an "Audi driver" sense of self worth predominate. This brings its own problems to society and the attitudes society has towards cyclists. Restrictors such as A-frames are both a symptom and a cause.

Speaking as an averagely fit 55 year old, I have no trouble getting our Thorn tandem, with 4 panniers, through properly installed A frames. Straight bars with full length bar ends. I have cut the bars down for comfort and the overall width is about 54cm. The rear bars are about the same. Obviously, lining up is important, and if I get it slightly wrong the stoker has to lift the rear wheel to get it in line. An inconvenience, certainly.

I have spoken to cyclists who resent A Frames, and I have spoken to cyclists who want to see more of them on tracks where motorcycles are a big problem. To portray this as cyclists versus non-cyclists is just plain wrong. There is a division, but that is not where it is. I've also talked to disabled people who welcome A Frames in specific locations. Only on a few occasions, and only a few individuals, but enough to convince me that any claim that disabled people, as a group, are uniformaly on one side of the debate is overly simplistic.

[AlaninWales]

pwa, you have a talent for entirely missing the point (and not just on my posts). Do you really believe that an "averagely fit 55 year old" (I doubt that if you cycle regularly) is really the target market if cycling is going to be (a) available to everyone (b) a reasonable choice for most (c) an help to improve our nation's health and (d) a help to reduce our nation's car dependence?

Or perhaps you don't feel these are reasonable aims of a transport policy?

[pwa]

pwa, you have a talent for entirely missing the point (and not just on my posts). Do you really believe that an "averagely fit 55 year old" (I doubt that if you cycle regularly) is really the target market if cycling is going to be (a) available to everyone (b) a reasonable choice for most (c) an help to improve our nation's health and (d) a help to reduce our nation's car dependence?

Or perhaps you don't feel these are reasonable aims of a transport policy?

Al, you miss my points.

My first point was that I'm not young and I'm not exceptionally fit for my age, and that my very long tandem is easily doable with properly installed A Frames. So you don't have to be young or super fit or on a solo road bike to get through an A Frame. Simple point, I thought. I certainly accept that for some an A Frame is a challenge they could do without, and I would prefer that A Frames are kept to a minimum. I have said that before.

My other point was that claiming that an opposition to all A Frames (as opposed to some A frames) is in some way speaking for all people with mobility problems is incorrect. I have talked to people who use mobility scooters who favour use of A Frames in specific locations. I have spoken to cyclists who support their use in some locations.

I feel that some on this forum get a bit too polarised on this issue. As someone who has helped to bring about the creation of new rail bed cycle tracks, then spoken to cyclists who are deterred from using them a second time after incidents with off-road motorbikes, I see this issue from more than one angle.