what are the headphones which drown traffic noise?

[Mike Sales]

I have a problem. I like listening to Radio 4 whilst riding. My difficulty is that traffic noise makes my radio inaudible. Even the noise of a headwind past my ears drowns out Melvyn Bragg.
I use a Pure pocket radio and those headphones which hook over the ear. Another difficulty is that the phones are audible if I press them into my ear, but when I return my hand to the bars the phone quickly moves out of the optimum position.
Does anyone have a remedy?
Please spare me any homilies about the sinfulness of earphones. One, traffic drowns them. Two, I am confident that I will never forget that the reason I cannot hear engines behind me is that my ears are full of a more interesting noise. I never change my line without a visual check, even when I am not listening to GQT. I have never had to dive into the hedge because I have heard an overtaking, screaming engine.
So, can anyone help me listen to the Infinite Monkey Cage whilst I ride?

[mercalia]

you want some noise canceling phones - they have microphones that sample the sound from the out side then produce an anti sound that cancels it out, "out of phase" I think it is called. I used to have a pair of ear bud type, cant say I was impressed. some would say that anything that cancels out Melvyn Bragg's droning on not a bad thing

[Mike Sales]

I think you may have misunderstood me. I am looking for those headphones which I often hear condemned: those which are loud enough for the radio to overcome the sound of traffic. I have never found any which enable me to hear a talk programme whilst a car passes me.
I am surprised too that you tell me I need the noise cancellers when you found that they did not impress.
As to my choice of listening, we all differ. I cannot stand inane DJ chat for instance.

[Psamathe]

Whilst I don't know about traffic (or the advisability of wearing headphones whilst riding), I think it may not only relate to the headphones but to the radio as well. These portable devices have safety limits on output volume to prevent people damaging their hearing and suing them. Which does raise the issue over the volume you would actually need and the potential damage you could do to your hearing - even if you could find a device that will provide the output power.

Also, a lot depends on the headphones you have at present. There are two types of earbuds (irrespective of them having the ear hooks), one that rest in the ear the other type that have a more pointy rubber bit that goes much further into the ear (I've tried them and find them uncomfortable but others clearly like them).

But you do need to be careful about volume and damaging your hearing (and once damaged it does not recover, ever). Whilst I have no experience of noise cancelling headphones, my Dad has used them at home and likes them. It could be a way to eliminate car noise though I'm unsure about the wind noise.

Another possibility might be those headphones that don't go in your ear but below and use bone transmission of sound. People say that the sound quality is not so good but for talking it would be less of an issue.

But, just like saddles, most places will not do sale, try and return.

But do consider the risks of just turning the volume up loud as this is how people damage their hearing.

Ian

[Mick F]

............ I cannot stand inane DJ chat for instance.

Me too.
Inane chat is awful.

Sorry, not any help for your plight whilst cycling, but I wouldn't mind finding a pair of headphones that'll cancel out ambient noise in general. I'd wear them permanently.

[[XAP]Bob]

Get some bone conduction phones - perfectly fine for speech, and the transmission method is not affected by wind.

Of course you might need to crank the volume up a bit, but nothing beyond sanity I wouldn't have thought.

I'd expect most places to do sale or return actually - particularly since BC headphones don't go in the ear. Any internet shop will do, and argos as well I imagine.

[Mike Sales]

Thanks Bob. I may try those bone conduction phones.

It's just that there is so much talk about earphones which deafen riders to traffic that I thought they must be common. There is never any caveat about any particular type being the dangerous sort, its just earphones in general that attract blanket condemnation. Since my problem is the reverse I was wondering why this was and how I could "listen in" on busier roads. Which sort of phones deafen cyclists to that extent. If I can get phones I can hear above the traffic I am prepared to take the risk they make me do dangerous manoeuvres without visual checks.

I find your warnings about hearing damage surprising, Psamanthe. I want to hear the radio above the traffic, and we are not commonly warned that traffic noise is damaging to hearing, or even approaching a threshold.

Is it true that the earphones which are so often said to be dangerous because the users cannot hear traffic, are close to or above the threshold of damage?

[andrew_s]

I wouldn't expect bone conduction headphones to be any good for cutting out traffic noise. They sit against the back of your cheekbone, just in front of the ear, and you can hear non-headphone sounds such as traffic just as well as with no headphones.

Assuming you don't want big, bulky, earmuff style headphone, the options are noise isolating headphones, which attempt to fully block the outer ear canal so external sound can't get past, or the active noise cancelling headphones, which generate an "anti-noise" as stated above.

Of the latter, there are relatively cheap Chinese versions, or you can pay £230 for the proper Bose 'phones.
I've got a Sony Walkman that offers (cheap) noise cancelling, but I found that it attempts to cancel the wind buffet, and doesn't help at all when riding, so on those occasions I've used it, the cancelling has mostly been turned off.

[[XAP]Bob]

Basically if it's over 85dB then long term exposure can be harmful.

Many people nowadays use the in ear style, and they can isolate from outside noise very effectively, and can drive 100+dB at the eardrum. That can result in permanent hearing loss in as little as a few hours.

I mix our church system (A weighted, fast response, non calibrated) to peak at 90-95dB max during our more lively service, but sections of songs will be significantly lower than that (peaking low 80s).
That's 20 minutes at a time, happily safe.



Note that heavy traffic can be about 85dB - but if R4 is at the same level then you'll be able to hear it...
We don't need to block traffic noise to hear other things - we're very good at filtering noises.

[JohnW]

I always think that we're safer if we keep our wits and senses alert when riding - the car you don't hear coming could be the car that hits you.

[Mike Sales]

I am learning that in order to get earphones which you can hear above the noise of traffic you need to go to extreme lengths. This seems at odds with the general opinion that listening on headphones deafens you to traffic to a dangerous extent. Do the dire warnings only apply to the sort of expensive equipment Andrew talks about? That seems unlikely.
I was assuming that if there is any truth at all in the warnings, most earphone wearing cyclists must be wearing something unlike my phones, something which drowned out traffic.
It seems I was wrong.

Addition in response to Bob.
All I want to do is hear the radio. If I gave the impression I want to drown the traffic completely I erred. I am not usually in heavy traffic, but any passing car makes the radio inaudible. If I can still hear the traffic I won't be too upset.
What are in ear phones? Are they the ones I can often buy in Aldi for instance. They have a little rubber seal, often with a choice of sizes, none of which hold the thing in my ear. They always quickly fall out. That is why I use the ones with ear hooks. Maybe its my earhole shape, or the tufts of hair which sprout so thickly these days.
Perhaps this is the difficulty. I do not suit in ear phones. They just won't stay in.

JohnW. Presumably this car is coming from behind, or I would see it. When I hear it coming behind me how can I tell if it is about to mow me down without compunction, or just pass me within a couple of feet or so, like so many others. Do you often hurl yourself into the hedge when you hear cars behind? I never have.

[[XAP]Bob]

Yes - given a good fit those are really good isolaters.

I keep considering a pair of BC headphones - end up listening to the birds on long rides, and talking to myself...

[JohnW]

...........................JohnW. Presumably this car is coming from behind, or I would see it. When I hear it coming behind me how can I tell if it is about to mow me down without compunction, or just pass me within a couple of feet or so, like so many others. Do you often hurl yourself into the hedge when you hear cars behind? I never have.

Oh dear - I maybe didn't express myself fully - I tried to keep it short.

Particularly when in heavy traffic (commuting etc) I believe that we need to give our full and alert attention to our circumstances and immediate environment. We need to be as fully aware as possible of what's happening around us. If we're taking some notice of what's on the radio (and if we're not, what's the point of having it in our ears?) than that's one bit of attention that is not on what we're doing. I'm not going to get into an argument, but I won't be distracted from the belief that we're safer if we're giving our riding/driving our best attention.

[Mike Sales]

I started out saying I did not want to have this discussion. I disagree with you. Is it impossible for deaf people to cycle safely? Your argument is all pious generalisation. Would you like to describe a series of events in which not being able to hear the traffic leads to an inevitable disaster?
As regards distraction by the radio, does this apply to drivers?

[Psamathe]

...Are they the ones I can often buy in Aldi for instance. They have a little rubber seal, often with a choice of sizes, none of which hold the thing in my ear. They always quickly fall out....

I have a decent pair (Sony ones mid price range) and whilst they stay in (not tried when riding) I find them exceptionally uncomfortable - my ears really start to ache after a time (and next time the ache starts sooner). I guess many find them ok (as they are sold) and that I am not alone (because the design that just rests in your ear is also still made and is normally he default format supplied with devices.

Ian