Greatest ever uk frame builder?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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bigjim
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby bigjim » 31 Aug 2016, 2:09pm

I was informed in the distant past. That because of the British penchant for hand built, motorcycle and car engines had to employ big gaskets between mating surfaces in order to make the engine oiltight. We all know how that worked out. The Japanese though, invested heavily in precision engineering which resulted in "tight" joints and only needed the thinnest of gaskets. So how good are the joints in a hand made frame today, against a frame that has been machined on a multi head CNC machine in the far east?
Nothing left to prove.

Grandad
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby Grandad » 31 Aug 2016, 8:01pm

Could these later posts please be transferred to the motorcycle forum :(

reohn2
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby reohn2 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:06pm

pete75 wrote:The British motorbike industry was badly managed

Like the car industry a refusal to move with the times,ain't that the truth.


I had an A10 - a Rocket Goldstar - handled well and was quicker than a CB750 four. Dad made a lot of special parts for the engine including much lighter valve rockers made out of titanium and steel con rods which enabled it to rev a lot higher than a standard A10 motor along with tuning intake manifold length and port shapes on a gas flow rig. The inlet valves were machined from Can-Am Chevy racing engine valves.

That would be a seriously 'breathed on' Goldie.
The Japanese bikes came fast and very reliable out of the box.
After you'd changed the Jap tyres (of the time) that is and fitted green linings on the twin leading shoe front brake on the T500 :wink:

Only real fault with the bike was the need to slip the clutch up to about 10mph because of the close ratio rrt2 gearbox - it would have been brilliant with a 5 speed box.

I had a mate who had a 500 Goldie and warning me off the RRT2 box for that reason,he was forever messing with the clutch and it was useless to ride in traffic .
BTW if you were to compare the UK 250's of the time with Jap 250's of the time the Japs were miles ahead,I had a 250 Hustler and a Honda CB72,the hustler was a great little bike and seemed to run on fresh air,I barely needed to touch from one month to the next,found memories....

Have a 71 K1 CB750 now along with an A10. Strange how perceptions change - when the CB750 came out it seemed a totally different beast to something like an A10 but today compared to modern bikes they actually seem very similar.

Mine was a K1 :) though I'd have to disagree about it being in anyway similar to an A10 :? .
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foxychick
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby foxychick » 31 Aug 2016, 8:08pm

Well said grandad my sentiments exactly what the hell have motorbikes got to do with this thread?

reohn2
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby reohn2 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:15pm

Grandad wrote:Could these later posts please be transferred to the motorcycle forum :(


Thread drift happens though is relevant in respect as to how engineering has gone down the tubes(sorry)..
But part of BigJim's last post :-
So how good are the joints in a hand made frame today, against a frame that has been machined on a multi head CNC machine in the far east?

is very relevant IMHO,the Taiwanese have got mass production and price down to a T,and these frames are extremely well made,especially if like me you don't like ornate lugs,preferring the lines of tig welding :)
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reohn2
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby reohn2 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:15pm

foxychick wrote:Well said grandad my sentiments exactly what the hell have motorbikes got to do with this thread?


It's all engineering unless you haven't noticed :?
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Mike Sales
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby Mike Sales » 31 Aug 2016, 8:26pm

reohn2 wrote:It's all engineering unless you haven't noticed :?


Is civil engineering or electrical a permissible topic, or only mechanical?

fastpedaller
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby fastpedaller » 31 Aug 2016, 8:37pm

reohn2 wrote:the Taiwanese have got mass production and price down to a T,and these frames are extremely well made,especially if like me you don't like ornate lugs,preferring the lines of tig welding :)

Indeed, my On-One Pompino and Spa tourer are good frames IMHO.
I did wonder about some careful paint lining on a modern TIG welded frame, so at a distance it looked like a lugged frame :lol:
Also IMHO some of the paint schemes on modern frames look great compared to (mostly) the simple lug lining or box lining of old (good and skilled though it was).

reohn2
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby reohn2 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:43pm

Mike Sales wrote:
reohn2 wrote:It's all engineering unless you haven't noticed :?


Is civil engineering or electrical a permissible topic, or only mechanical?


Cast off the rope a drift away :wink:

Seriously though it's all relevant,the world turns and no one can stop it,but the biggest mistake the UK did was not recognising the threat and determination of the far east to beat us at our own game.
They have,and of that there's no doubt,that's due to the UK's engineering industry not investing and total lack of R&D and marketing skills ie; the refusal to give the customer what they wanted and telling them they'll have what they're given.
The result was disaster.
Last edited by reohn2 on 31 Aug 2016, 8:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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foxychick
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby foxychick » 31 Aug 2016, 8:45pm

Nothing infuriates me more than folk bleating on about things that have nothing to do with the original post!

reohn2
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby reohn2 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:54pm

foxychick wrote:Nothing infuriates me more than folk bleating on about things that have nothing to do with the original post!

Read my previous post and you may see it has everything to do with it and that's why there are hardly any UK bespoke frame builders,however in the last few years there one or two springing up hear and there,though the cost is astronomical.
Moulton Pylon(pile it on) anyone?
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phil parker
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby phil parker » 31 Aug 2016, 9:42pm

So, what about Chaz Roberts? :D

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bigjim
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby bigjim » 31 Aug 2016, 9:46pm

foxychick wrote:Nothing infuriates me more than folk bleating on about things that have nothing to do with the original post!

So thats how you would like it to run then? About ten replies to the original post and then shut it down. Like a yes or no poll. No veering left or right. Stay in line you people! Conversation be damned. No thanks. Not for me.
Nothing left to prove.

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speedsixdave
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby speedsixdave » 31 Aug 2016, 9:53pm

reohn2 wrote:...though the cost is astronomical.
Moulton Pylon(pile it on) anyone?


Well, umm, yeah, the Pylon is a bit on the pricey side. The Jubilee and AM Speed are both available complete from Fudges for under £4000, which I'm happy to accept is a huge amount of cash but is less than quite a lot of boring carbon bikes on sale now in Leisure Lakes at the end of my road. And there's some proper craftsmanship in an AM, paying southern wages too.

As an addendum on cost, I remember being at the Moulton weekend in 1989 when Alex Moulton unveiled the AM Speed. It cost about £2000 then, so has doubled in price in 25 years or so. Does that sound comparable to a bike from e.g. Mercian?
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Samuel D
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Re: Greatest ever uk frame builder?

Postby Samuel D » 31 Aug 2016, 10:02pm

Dave Yates is another name that deserves mention in a thread like this, as far as I can tell from reading alone.