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Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 8:22pm
by mattsccm
Nope. I meant it that way. Our society has centralised through pathetic demand thus the need for a car. I don't think the car is the cause.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 8:39pm
by brynpoeth
Apparently many people aspire to a car, a new car, a bigger car

I aspire to driving as little as possible, ideally not having a vehicle

Managed without for many years but I do have one now :?

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 9:52pm
by Vorpal
mattsccm wrote:Nope. I meant it that way. Our society has centralised through pathetic demand thus the need for a car. I don't think the car is the cause.

If not the cause, the car is certainly the primary enabler. It certainly wouldn't have occurred if the majority were limited to horses, pedal cycle, and foot.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 10:10pm
by gaz
gaz wrote:In the unlikely event that I should ever repeat the experience, ...

The unlikely event happened. More than once. Indeed I am now more likely to get the groceries by quaxing than by car.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 10:17pm
by brynpoeth
gaz wrote:It was the water that caused the packing issue. Once I'd laid the bottles flat at the bottom of the trailer everything else just slotted in on top without any further problems. Prior planning and preparation .... :wink:

For myself if anything swings me to more regular bike shopping it will be the hassle of parking the car.


Let them drink tap water!

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 10:18pm
by reohn2
Vorpal wrote:
mattsccm wrote:Nope. I meant it that way. Our society has centralised through pathetic demand thus the need for a car. I don't think the car is the cause.

If not the cause, the car is certainly the primary enabler. It certainly wouldn't have occurred if the majority were limited to horses, pedal cycle, and foot.

But that would be like trying to stop time.
The problem is we've gone of down a path that with a little forethought we could've seen where it lead,unfortunately the wrong people(as usual) got hold of the idea and ran like the wind with it.
Capitalism knows no bounds when it comes to profit.
We're where we are,what needs to be done is defeat capitalism on the issue,and we know capitalism is running the show so it's course needs diverting and captialism needs to grow a heart(a very difficult prospect),things need to change.
But as long as profit rules people,the climate and world come second,the term '90 mph down a dead end street' springs to mind
Democracy doesn't rule,profit does,profit has no conscience.
Until another better need(not want) is found,profit will remain the mother of invention.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 8:12am
by The utility cyclist
I was sat waiting for bloods to be taken yesterday, overheard two couples talking about how there wasn't anywhere to park in Stevenage anymore and one guy said his daughter had to pay to the park at the hospital despite being a nurse and the affrontry of it all. He then said she lived in Stevenage and I thought why the hell is she not cycling to the hospital. Given how slow it can be to get to yhe hospital at times and the extra time to get parked I bet she'd be 10 minutes most longer getting to her point of work from even the furthest part of Stevenage to the hospital.

The hassle and cost to drive such a short distance would drive me dolallytip. The shortsightedness, ignorance and agenda driven thinking all leads to this scenario of people believing using the car is easier, in some cases it is but make changes to the alloted infra and take it back from the group that is literally steangling us and that would change, particularly if that is forced.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 8:42am
by pwa
The good news is that around here there are a lot more cycling commuters than there were twenty years ago. In 1998 I felt very lonely and exceptional as I cycled the ten miles to work. These days the cycling commuter is a much more common sight. So the motorists who pass them have more opportunity to think that, actually, that might be a good way of getting fit. My wife has a couple of colleagues (teachers) who have chosen to cycle to work some days. One has a journey of 15 miles each way. The more people do this, the more others will be tempted.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 10:35am
by mjr
pwa wrote:The good news is that around here there are a lot more cycling commuters than there were twenty years ago. In 1998 I felt very lonely and exceptional as I cycled the ten miles to work. These days the cycling commuter is a much more common sight. So the motorists who pass them have more opportunity to think that, actually, that might be a good way of getting fit. My wife has a couple of colleagues (teachers) who have chosen to cycle to work some days. One has a journey of 15 miles each way. The more people do this, the more others will be tempted.

Ironically, that might not work so well in Stevenage because I think the cycleways keep the cycling commuters mostly out of sight of motoring commuters blocked at junctions by other motoring commuters, so they're slightly less likely to see the happy smiley bicycle faces and think "why aren't I having that much fun on the way to/from work?"

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 11:53am
by pwa
mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:The good news is that around here there are a lot more cycling commuters than there were twenty years ago. In 1998 I felt very lonely and exceptional as I cycled the ten miles to work. These days the cycling commuter is a much more common sight. So the motorists who pass them have more opportunity to think that, actually, that might be a good way of getting fit. My wife has a couple of colleagues (teachers) who have chosen to cycle to work some days. One has a journey of 15 miles each way. The more people do this, the more others will be tempted.

Ironically, that might not work so well in Stevenage because I think the cycleways keep the cycling commuters mostly out of sight of motoring commuters blocked at junctions by other motoring commuters, so they're slightly less likely to see the happy smiley bicycle faces and think "why aren't I having that much fun on the way to/from work?"


But when the cycling commuters get to work they talk to their colleagues. That is what got one of the teaching friends of my wife cycling to work some of the time. My wife doing it, and another colleague following suit, made them think about it as a way of getting some exercise. It is becoming less eccentric.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 12:21pm
by mjr
pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:Ironically, that might not work so well in Stevenage because [...]


But when the cycling commuters get to work they talk to their colleagues. [...]

Yes, I realise that and didn't say it was impossible/futile or anything. I just think actually seeing happy cycling commuters is more powerful than talking to them afterwards and imagining it to be difficult like many motoring commuters seem to.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 1:17pm
by pwa
In the case of my wife and her colleagues, the individual teachers who followed her example and started doing some of their commuting by bike were already friends at work, who knew her to be someone with her head screwed on. So her arriving at work on a bike was a sign that it is a sensible option for normal busy people, not just eccentrics. When she said it helped her to arrive at work refreshed and ready to go, they believed her because they already knew her to be a good performer at work. There must be a lot of that going on, with people selling cycle commuting simply by doing it.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 4:38pm
by brynpoeth
brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:A health food store near me offers bottled water from Japan :(

I find that truly amazing,as it falls out of the sky with monotomous regularity where I live and is free to collect or I just turn on the tap.
Thinks... .....I suppose it could be Zen non water,water that isn't,yet is,and therefore a better incarnation of water........





PS,go one then,how much per ltr :wink:

I saw it when going by, I never shop there

I will have a look tomorrow probably and report back


Went by again today, did not find any Japanese water so I looked at the poster again
Seems it is an ironic reference to NOT getting water from Japan, advertising a marketing fair for green living at the cruise ferry terminal in Hamburg!
The German sense of humour can be a bit difficult :?

I did wonder whether it was just a reference to water that has surely been everywhere :D

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 4:51pm
by Stevek76
horizon wrote:I think it's generally considered more hassle to get on a bike (lights, clothing, panniers, lock etc)



Well that's the point isn't it. In countries where cycling is normal, most of those items don't apply.

Lights are fixed to the bike and run off a dynamo, clothing is the same stuff you normally wear, panniers are just your usual bags and locking of bikes rarely even happens.

Some of that is facilitated through proper infrastructure. Some of it though just seems to be attitude. I see it here in bristol, people undertaking broadly similar commutes to the one I do (< 3 miles, plenty of off/quiet road options) make a massive hassle out of it.

I don't have a full dutch bike, but it does have full length mudguards. The lights are battery powered but rarely leave it (work parking is secure, no point at home), if it's out in public just pull them off and put them in pocket/panniers, that's approx 10 seconds of time, not exactly hassle. Clothing I just cycle in what I will wear at my destination, I have a light waterproof jacket and some rain legs which just live in the bottom of the pannier bag. As does the lock, which again, I only bother with in public and how long does it take to sling a d-lock around the bottom bracket? Not long, quicker than finding and getting in a car parking spot most of the time, usually closer as well.

Meanwhile I see others lycra/high vis/helmet up, go full effort getting there all of 5min quicker to then spend 5min having a shower on an entirely unsuitable racing or mountain bike and then because it's expensive and therefore nickable, require a daft level of locking as a deterrent.

And that's quiet honestly annoying as they make cycling look like an effort to others, when it isn't.

Re: The hassle of cycling versus the hassle of driving

Posted: 26 Jan 2018, 5:19pm
by pwa
What you wear when you cycle is your business and nobody else's.

For me the clothing thing is one of the obstacles / downsides. After finishing work, if driving home, I will simply walk to my car and get in. Turn key, drive home. If cycling I will change into cycling clothes. Not lycra, as it happens, but not the clothes I work in. It takes time to get to the changing area, time to take off and stow my work clothes, and time to put on my cycling clothes. Then I have to deal with the two locks on my bike. All small things to deal with, but when you are tired and weary, and just want to get home, they are a psychological hurdle. I could be a third the way home in the car in the time it takes to get to actually starting to cycle home.

Cycling home takes me a lot longer than driving, but I like cycling so don't consider the commute as dead time. It is partly leisure. So it is the faffing around with bags and clothes that puts me off sometimes. Cycling in my work clothes is not an option.