Sainsburys to trial bike deliveries : electric assistance this time

[The utility cyclist]

I think it's going to be the volume not necessarily the weight that's the problem PLUS if the bikes need a fridge too (if deciding to do temp controlled items which takes up space and remove capacity as well as adding weight overall to the unloaded vehicle.

So whilst extreme something like 20x9 rolls of toilet paper, 20x5l vegetable oil is going to be a non starter so they'll need to use the volumetric weight system to work out which deliveries are possible.

Week before last I bought 6x9 loo rolls plus some smaller stuff and even with a 70L rucksack plus 50L panniers I had to leave a single 9 roll pack behind. The following week I bought 10kg sack of rice, 2x5l vege oil, 3l milk, 4x450g sauces, 3x500g spread, 1kg pork chops, 2 bag of flour plus the all important bags of midget gems, I could have got another 3x5l vege oil in the rucksack on top of the rice but 30kg net load up the 7% slope back home was more than enough.
I hope it takes off but think they need to look at the bikes used for deliveries which are in use elsewhere in the world that can take the bulk and decide if it's just ambient.

Sorry, but I have to ask - why would you want to buy in excess of 5 gallons of vegetable oil in one go????

I used the 20x5l or 20x 9 loo roll packs as an example of how the 20 item rule could be an issue for deliveries by bike.

I only bought 10l of vege oil this time and stated I could carry 3x5l more in my rucksack as an example of what one could carry on a bike with panniers and a very large rucksack at the extreme end. I would normally buy 4 or 5 x 5l of oil, in the past for the car and/or using a discount voucher whilst the vege oil was on special offer. My point about the volume being the restricting factor for bicycle delivered groceries is pertinent IMO.

[Cyril Haearn]

Yep saw that but didn't want to appear I was looking at her le..... .......dang! .

Am I old, past it and senile...... and very very sad?


I must admit that by the time I noticed the legs, I had spotted the trike, the lack of electrical assistance, no hub gear, the fact that is was carrying food/beer and wondered how secure the plate/ place mat on top was!

Saw a Coffee Bike, it is enormous and heavy, could only be cycled on the level with a very low gear. But it is not really a bike at all, it is taken from A to B on a trailer behind a lifestyle tank

[Airsporter1st]

I think it's going to be the volume not necessarily the weight that's the problem PLUS if the bikes need a fridge too (if deciding to do temp controlled items which takes up space and remove capacity as well as adding weight overall to the unloaded vehicle.

So whilst extreme something like 20x9 rolls of toilet paper, 20x5l vegetable oil is going to be a non starter so they'll need to use the volumetric weight system to work out which deliveries are possible.

Week before last I bought 6x9 loo rolls plus some smaller stuff and even with a 70L rucksack plus 50L panniers I had to leave a single 9 roll pack behind. The following week I bought 10kg sack of rice, 2x5l vege oil, 3l milk, 4x450g sauces, 3x500g spread, 1kg pork chops, 2 bag of flour plus the all important bags of midget gems, I could have got another 3x5l vege oil in the rucksack on top of the rice but 30kg net load up the 7% slope back home was more than enough.
I hope it takes off but think they need to look at the bikes used for deliveries which are in use elsewhere in the world that can take the bulk and decide if it's just ambient.

Sorry, but I have to ask - why would you want to buy in excess of 5 gallons of vegetable oil in one go????

I used the 20x5l or 20x 9 loo roll packs as an example of how the 20 item rule could be an issue for deliveries by bike.

I only bought 10l of vege oil this time and stated I could carry 3x5l more in my rucksack as an example of what one could carry on a bike with panniers and a very large rucksack at the extreme end. I would normally buy 4 or 5 x 5l of oil, in the past for the car and/or using a discount voucher whilst the vege oil was on special offer. My point about the volume being the restricting factor for bicycle delivered groceries is pertinent IMO.

Understood and point taken.

[The utility cyclist]

http://www.rippl.bike/en/rippl-45-sains ... -60-years/

According to the James Fitzgerald, MD of ecargobikes, the bikes are averaging 12.3mph delivery speed, I'd like to see the data on that released because they state this is over the full 8 hour shift, that would suggest 98 miles in one shift from store to deliveries and back to store again.
Unless it was an average based on moving time speed only. even so In the environment used I would be very surprised if this was possible in all but very limited runs. I wonder if the data used was from specific extreme ends and which route was used for the 3.4mph average for the vans and again was this the av.speed over the whole 8 hours (giving a total distance of only 27 miles from store and back again) or moving speed average?

[Cyril Haearn]

Part of the issue is the way that the Supermarkets have changed shopping.

As a kid, we never had a massive shop. We would get what we needed when we needed it, and it was always possible to carry it by bike, bus or on foot. It also was from local shops, who knew heir customers. I can remember going into the local butchers and instead of buying what Iwas on the list, being told that a particular item had come in and been put aside, because it was something my parents liked - they were never wrong



Very occasionally one of us kids would be detailed off as a beast of burden if there was something coming up like Christmas, relatives staying or similar

Do we really need these massive bulk shop purchases?

Little. Often. Co-op!
Local government should have more power and require stores to be spread out, not clustered, maybe smaller too, so that in town at least anyone could walk to a store in ten minutes

Why do stores cluster?

[brooksby]

Part of the issue is the way that the Supermarkets have changed shopping.

As a kid, we never had a massive shop. We would get what we needed when we needed it, and it was always possible to carry it by bike, bus or on foot. It also was from local shops, who knew heir customers. I can remember going into the local butchers and instead of buying what Iwas on the list, being told that a particular item had come in and been put aside, because it was something my parents liked - they were never wrong



Very occasionally one of us kids would be detailed off as a beast of burden if there was something coming up like Christmas, relatives staying or similar

Do we really need these massive bulk shop purchases?

Little. Often. Co-op!
Local government should have more power and require stores to be spread out, not clustered, maybe smaller too, so that in town at least anyone could walk to a store in ten minutes

Why do stores cluster?

Competition. One store opens, does well, other stores open near it to try and take its customers/kill it off.

[Cyril Haearn]

Like parasitic insects devouring each other, a good analogy

[Bmblbzzz]

Specialist shops benefit from the presence of other shops within the same branch. If you're looking for a pair of shoes you'd be more likely to go to Cobbler Street where there are a dozen shoe shops because if the first one doesn't have anything to suit you, one of the others probably will. In contrast the single shoe shop on Baker Street is more likely to turn out to be a wasted trip for you.

Generalist shops like supermarkets might not benefit from clustering in the same way but they do benefit from similar factors to each other - nearby population, access and parking, and of course land prices, which sends them to the edge of town.

[Cyril Haearn]

There is or was a cluster of bookshops in Charing Cross Road London, +1
But buying shoes or clothes is quite different, surely no-one enjoys doing it?
I get safety shoes from the diy store, they are light and practical, good for walking, I even cycle in them
Safety shoes are available in business style too

[horizon]

I haven't unpacked the whole thread but my initial reading of what Sainsbury's have done is that it is feasible, practical, profitable, environmentally friendly, reduces congestion, good for shoppers and healthier for staff.

There's no reason why Sainsbury's cannot use software to plan trips so that the bikes do the short light trips and the vans do the longer, heavier ones. There's no reason too why the drops shouldn't be broken up into multiple trips to deal with volume and/or weight. When I order from SJS for example, their computer calculates postage based on weight so I would have thought it's pretty easy. And the great thing is that a car-using shopper pays to have an environmentally-friendly delivery.

My only regret is that Sainsbury's don't appear to be running a trial parallel with the ebikes of non-powered cargo bikes. I'm not totally convinced it wouldn't be just as feasible. After all, there are plenty of forum members who carry a full shopping load (or touring equivalent) on their unpowered bikes. At the very least, their software could take care of the small, light orders.

Remember, the customer is effectively switching from car to bike for their groceries - and that could be hundreds of customers. It is in effect a revolution in shopping - goodbye to supermarket car parks?

[Cyril Haearn]

Hundreds, thousands, millions?
Positive thread alert, +1!

[Cunobelin]

Part of the issue is the way that the Supermarkets have changed shopping.

As a kid, we never had a massive shop. We would get what we needed when we needed it, and it was always possible to carry it by bike, bus or on foot. It also was from local shops, who knew heir customers. I can remember going into the local butchers and instead of buying what Iwas on the list, being told that a particular item had come in and been put aside, because it was something my parents liked - they were never wrong



Very occasionally one of us kids would be detailed off as a beast of burden if there was something coming up like Christmas, relatives staying or similar

Do we really need these massive bulk shop purchases?

Little. Often. Co-op!
Local government should have more power and require stores to be spread out, not clustered, maybe smaller too, so that in town at least anyone could walk to a store in ten minutes

Why do stores cluster?

Competition. One store opens, does well, other stores open near it to try and take its customers/kill it off.

Often a subsidy..

Southampton is a prime example
Bar Gate, Marlands, Ocean Village, and now West Quay

Shops get a grant or subsidy to move in, then when the next big project comes in, the same happens again and off they move leaving the first a derelict shell


The other thing is if you know that there are similar shops or a shop with similar demographic then you can capture that footfall