Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
thirdcrank
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Nov 2016, 10:18am

The system is here:

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

A couple of obvious points:

You do need to have a good claim ie being able to show that the other person is to blame for your loss (my non-legal wording)
It's pointless getting a judgment against somebody who has not the means to pay.

Making progress will depend largely on how much info (driver ID and insurance details) the police ascertain. A few years ago, when the police stopped attending most accidents as a matter of policy, assurances were given that drivers who were let down by the other driver being awkward over things like this would still be able to get a police investigation. I'd not be confident that this always applies in real life.

The MIB has been mentioned. Here they are:
https://www.mib.org.uk/
=======================
Al has posted while I was typing.

I'd only observe that plenty of people who are required by law to do something, don't.

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meic
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby meic » 30 Nov 2016, 10:24am

In both cases the court immediately sends you the money and then gets it off the loser. No hassle to you.

That is not my understanding of how things work!

If this happens then things have very much changed. Normally the flaw with small claims is that if the other party has no assets that can be taken by a bailiff, then you may never get paid.
The Judge awards something like £2pw until the debt is paid and the other party just keeps failing to pay.
If they have property then you can send bailiffs in to get enough to pay the bill.
Yma o Hyd

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al_yrpal
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Nov 2016, 10:29am

You are splitting hairs. Are you saying that car drivers have no assets - what about the car? In any case when the defendant doesnt respond the court sends you the money straight away. Collecting the cash is not your problem the court does it. Thats my personal experience twice! If the person who hit you won't give you a name and address take their registration number photograph them and grab any witnesses name and addresses. Go straight to a Police station and get them involved. Refusing to give a name and address at the scene of an accident in which they are involved is an offence.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 30 Nov 2016, 10:34am

It will almost certainly have to be through the MIB, pretty obviously, as you don't know who the driver was. Even if you have the registration and even if it's genuine, proving it was the registered owner driving is going to be difficult.

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meic
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby meic » 30 Nov 2016, 10:40am

I am not splitting hairs.
Your version of how the payments are made is in contradiction of what I believe happens in the small claims court and what is written here, the first thing coming up on a Google search
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... urt-orders

The point about assets is that the Court does not offer to indemnify the claimant against a defendant who doesnt have the ability to pay. So they will not pay up front as they may not get the money back, that risk is yours not theirs.
Yma o Hyd

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meic
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby meic » 30 Nov 2016, 10:45am

See 9.2 on pg26.
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content ... +FINAL.pdf

I suspect that on both occasions that you took a case to the small claims court, the defendant played the usual game of paying up, to the court, at the last minute possible. So as to avoid any further costs but to cause the most inconvenience by not letting you know in advance that they would not attend.
Yma o Hyd

thirdcrank
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Nov 2016, 10:45am

That all works if the alleged offender is the type of bourgeois person who wouldn't do anything naughty anyway. There are reported to be countless uninsured cars, cars without the correct keeper details etc. A typical banger might be worth less to seize and sell than the amount owing. A lot of decent people also change address quite frequently in the search for work so tracing them can be difficult, even if they are not being evasive.

None of that's to say the system doesn't work, just that it's not necessarily plain sailing.

(meic posted while I was typing.)

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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby Psamathe » 30 Nov 2016, 10:50am

meic wrote:I am not splitting hairs.
Your version of how the payments are made is in contradiction of what I believe happens in the small claims court and what is written here, the first thing coming up on a Google search
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... urt-orders

The point about assets is that the Court does not offer to indemnify the claimant against a defendant who doesnt have the ability to pay. So they will not pay up front as they may not get the money back, that risk is yours not theirs.

I have found the issue of "assets" can be of great importance when pursuing a private individual. I once took somebody to County Court (amount was above the Small Claims Track limits) and my solicitor offered either I pay him and would get awarded (part) of his fees by court if I won or he'd do a "No win, no fee" basis. trouble is that with the "No win no fee" you can still up paying the higher solicitors charges if the private individual doe snot have the assets to pay what the court awards. This is not a problem when pursuing an insurance company or even a business (normally) but with a private individual it can be a risk. Even if they "own" a house (which was the case when I was pursuing somebody) you don't actually know how much they own and how much a lender owns or even if they are in negative equity (and lenders tend to have 1st call on funds). In my case I avoided the "No win, no fee", effectively won my case (involving a Judge but no open court appearances), she didn't have the money so we went for a monthly payment plus high interest on the debt plus my being listed on her property registry (after the mortgage lender) so the house could not be sold without paying off the lender then me (and I got paid-off by her lawyers after a few years when the house was sold).

Ian

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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby fastpedaller » 30 Nov 2016, 10:52am

meic wrote:I am not splitting hairs.
Your version of how the payments are made is in contradiction of what I believe happens in the small claims court and what is written here, the first thing coming up on a Google search
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... urt-orders

The point about assets is that the Court does not offer to indemnify the claimant against a defendant who doesnt have the ability to pay. So they will not pay up front as they may not get the money back, that risk is yours not theirs.


This is also my experience (from many years ago though). The defendant was told to pay, had him before court again because he didn't pay, and when I said to the court couldn't they make an attachment to his earnings? they said 1) He's self employed so we can't 2) He's said he'll pay! I couldn't believe this and said "but he's already said that and hasn't - that's why we're here again. I was told that was it. 6 months later and at my wits end I rang his solicitor and said "I'll get recompense, legally or illegally" They asked me to expand on that, so I just said "use your imagination". Within 2 weeks I got a cheque. :D
The above isn't a route I'd necessarily recommend, but I was at me wit's end and.... what would he do? report me to the Police for trying to recover the debt when the 'system' had let me down?

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al_yrpal
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Nov 2016, 11:02am

I am speaking from experience. If you doubt it do it your way and grapple with an insurer and fail.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

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meic
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby meic » 30 Nov 2016, 11:08am

There are many more possible courses and outcomes than just the two you offer a choice between.

Sometimes, surprisingly, insurance companies make reasonable prompt payouts.
Also it is a condition of small claims proceedings that you have to try and resolve the issue before going to the court. Even if that is the bare minimum of making a demand and saying if it isnt met in 14 days you will take it to the small claims court.
Yma o Hyd

karlt
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby karlt » 30 Nov 2016, 11:08am

Mick F wrote:A little story from the 80s in Helensburgh Scotland.

Mrs Mick F drove the car home from the swimming baths and crossed Clyde Street on her way home.
A chap on a moped was speeding along from her left, and hit the car right on the back left corner after she had crossed the road and was entering the opposite road. He was ok, but his moped was bent, and our car was dented. He obviously wasn't looking where he was going. Had he hit her at the front, it would have been her fault of course.
Anyway, water under the bridge now. It was 35 years ago!

She got his details and address, and we contacted our insurance with all the info. We were fully comp.
Our insurance people tried to contact the moped's insurance people, but he'd not reported the accident to them, so they would do nothing at all.
His insurance company would do nothing, so we lost our NCD. :oops:

So ................ don't hold out any hope of getting anything at all off your driver.
Get your bike sorted out and keep all the receipts.


I believe the law has changed since then, and the insurer involved can no longer refuse to deal if their client doesn't contact them.

Grandad
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby Grandad » 30 Nov 2016, 3:02pm

Reference has been made to claiming from the Motor Insurers Bureau if the insurance company is not known.

I think that this only applies to claims for injury, not damage to property.

thirdcrank
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Nov 2016, 3:54pm

From my MIB link above.

What we do

The MIB (Motor Insurers' Bureau) is here to help people involved in road accidents where the normal routes to compensation might not exist or be difficult to trace. We will consider claims for vehicle and property damage as well as injury where compensation cannot be claimed from another source such as an insurance company.

Grandad
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Re: Hit by a car, driver refused to give insurance details – what next?

Postby Grandad » 30 Nov 2016, 7:49pm

Thanks A change since my days at work.