Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Arby99
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 10:58pm

Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Arby99 »

Hi

I am undertaking some research on vintage bicycles and am trying to develop some baseline information. I have developed a short survey (<2 mins to complete). If you are interested in vintage bikes I would invite you to complete the survey below.

https://goo.gl/xRNxJ5

The survey is in a simple Google Form and is anonymous.

Many thanks

Andy
tatanab
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Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by tatanab »

WOW - vintage is defined as pre 1987 which is almost new to me!
A very simple survey, but what will be gained from results I cannot guess.
landsurfer
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Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by landsurfer »

Another nonsense "Study" ...... why are they attracted to this institutionally grumpy web forum ... :roll:
We will call them to the dark side .... :evil:
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by mattsccm »

Bloody silly. What does remanufactured mean? To me that is remade which is either impossible or at best dismantled and rebuilt. I have never seen such a thing. Suggest the dating is dodgy at best. Vintage? I would be thinking pre ww2 at latest.
Sorry either a terribly poor survey or onre with a very specific point to prove.
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foxyrider
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Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by foxyrider »

mattsccm wrote:Bloody silly. What does remanufactured mean? To me that is remade which is either impossible or at best dismantled and rebuilt. I have never seen such a thing. Suggest the dating is dodgy at best. Vintage? I would be thinking pre ww2 at latest.
Sorry either a terribly poor survey or onre with a very specific point to prove.

You are a grumpy so and so!

Vintage, yeah 1987 does sound recent but that's the year Eroica use as cut off so i've no trouble calling that vintage. I suppose you could term them 'historic' but we are talking semantics here, one man (or womans) vintage is another's daily transport. Pre WW2 would I think be termed Veteran
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Arby99
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 10:58pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Arby99 »

Well grumpy - I suggest you go for a ride and work it off.

I picked 1987 as that is Eroica entry year as indicated in previous post. The survey perfectly meets my research question and all responses are welcome and valued. Even those who select No to the question on do you own a pre-87 bike.

Thanks to all who are taking the time to respond...Its appreciated.
Ruadh495
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Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 11:10am

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Ruadh495 »

There's no option for "I use the nearest modern part and modify / upgrade / bodge as necessary". I realized as I filled it in that I actually have three pre-1987 bikes, but only one is even close to original and that I'm planning to convert to 622 wheels and dual pivot brakes when I get round to it.
scottg
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Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 8:44pm
Location: Highland Heights Kentucky,, USA

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by scottg »

Hardest parts to source,

Rims, 40 hole, w/o machined side walls.
The CR listmeister had Velocity make 40 holes rims a few years ago.

Bottle cages, especially handle bar mounted.
Simplex or Cloral

Handle bars,
Compass makes 1950 & 1970 French bends.
Soma makes a passable Lauterwasser bar.

Simplex SPD pedals, the rarest of all. :)
I use relabeled Shimanos of my old bikes.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
JohnW
Posts: 6667
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by JohnW »

Arby99 wrote:Well grumpy - I suggest you go for a ride and work it off..............


Hey Arby - don't be cruel to the chap - he is a cyclist :D after all, and thereby one of the best people on earth!!

One question for you to ponder is "what is a bike?" The one bike on which I did the most miles last year (just over 5,000) is built around a 1981 frame that I had built for me - my second highest usage bike (about 2,000 miles) is built around a 1993 frame, and my "keep it dry and polished" bike is built around a 2005 frame, and the components are absolutely interchangeable between the two oldest, and except for the rear hub everything is interchangeable with the 2005.

A quality frame is one that lasts until one of those motorist characters drive into the back and wreck it - as one of them did a couple of years ago to my 1979 frame :shock: :x :evil: :cry: . I also have a 1972 frame, which is 'resting' at the moment, but I will be able to build it up for everyday use with currently available new components. Admittedly the rear hub would have to be 'adjusted' to fit a 120 rear-end and a gear hanger would be required for the drop-out, to fit a current derailleur(in fact I've got plenty of parts to re-build that frame with, but I'd incorporate modern dual-pivot brakes and quill adapter/AHead stem ensemble).

But................when you say 'bike', do you mean something ostensibly ready built and ostensibly complete that comes in a box from an on-line retailer? If you do, then a 1987 ready-built bike would not be easy to replicate or keep running with identical parts/components to the ones it came out of the bike-shop with. Having said that there'd be no difficulty in replacing worn-out components with similar new tackle............it would probably have had a 5-speed freewheel block when new, and decent similar products aren't available any longer. 5-speed blocks currently available new are worse than a joke, but you can get half-decent 6-speed Shimano blocks..........however, as I learned on this forum some months ago, Spa have IRD 6-speed blocks which so far I've found to be at least as good as anything available in 1987.

This discourse could go on-and-on-and-on, in fact it probably will - there's a host of experienced cyclists looking on :D :D :D ...............but for me, a 'vintage' bike is one from before my time, and 1987 was only yesterday. Now, ask the same question, not about 'vintage' bikes, but about 'proper' :roll: :roll: :roll: bikes.................and see how that runs! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But Grumpy?????? :shock: :shock: :shock: - it may just be that the guy's memories and experience are such that he knows what he's talking about.
Alan O
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Joined: 23 Sep 2016, 4:51pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Alan O »

JohnW wrote:...you can get half-decent 6-speed Shimano blocks...

Yeah, I've recently replaced a couple of 6-speed blocks with new Shimano ones (a 14-24 and a 14-28), and with those contoured step-up bits to aid the shifting up of the chain, I'd say they're better than the originals.

Alan
mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by mattsccm »

The Eroica have not chosen vintage bikes, they have chosen a cut of date where by technology changed. Nice one actually, although maybe a touch flawed in the fine detail but near enough. . Modern fashion doesn't change facts. Vintage is just poor terminology in this case. Look at cars or motorcycles maybe.
I don't dislike the survey, in fact it was rather brief as I could probably offer plenty more positives, just that one word really.
Am I the only one who would genuinely like to know more? So often surveys pop up and can be interesting but the originator tells us so little. We might well be interested as they are about bikes!
mattsccm
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Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by mattsccm »

1987. I had a degree and half a decade of work under my belt by then. I remember things such as downtube gear levers as the norm and still would call them conventional. But then I still don't remember the new colours to wire a plug. Brown, blue and green? But why ? :D
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Mick F
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Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Mick F »

JohnW wrote:One question for you to ponder is "what is a bike?"
Utterly agree.
I have a 1986 frame, but everything on it is 2006 and much later ............. except for the stem and 'bars, and the seat pin.

A bike is only a collection of components.

These days, you can't buy a complete "bike".
You buy a bike minus the pedals!
Mick F. Cornwall
Arby99
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 10:58pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Arby99 »

Well a little bit of mystery keeps life interesting.... right..!

Thanks for the active discussion. I could have spent more time polishing the survey and even piloting it. You are all correct on the term vintage. This 'what is vintage' discussion could become its own thread but I chose to be a thief and figured people would not get too hung up.

Below is from Eroica Regulations:

VINTAGE-STYLE or MODERN BUILT BIKES
Vintage-style, steel framed bikes of new or recent construction with vintage look and characteristics may be used only if they are road racing bikes assembled using vintage components or replicated parts similar to the original, as described above.
In particular, if the bikes are inspired by the design of road racing bicycles of the 1970s and 1980s, they must comply with three fundamental rules (a,b,c) regarding shift levers, toe clips and straps, and brake cables.

We could argue about Historical, VIntage, Retro etc ......

I will happily share more when I can and I do promise to publish all the results for anyone so interested.

Cheers...
Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Study on Vintage Bikes - Help Appreciated

Post by Brucey »

FWIW if you ask a typical cyclist if they have 'a vintage bike' (i.e. without a qualifier of any kind) most of them won't say 'yes' if they have a machine from the late 1980s: Thus using 'vintage' in that way is arguably perpetuating a slight misuse of the word in English that perhaps first arose because it may have seemed to be 'the least bad' word to use when someone (who maybe didn't have the right background knowledge) was translating something from Italian into English.

In the vehicle (e.g. car/motorcycle) world 'Vintage' and 'Veteran' usually have defined meanings. [This is almost certainly the case for bicycles, too, but I happen not to know for sure; maybe they are not so precious about it. ] In such instances where machines fall outside the agreed ranges, other words such as 'classic' are used instead, with an indicative date range, or 'classic style' for machines that are of recent build but built in a particular way.

Probably there isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' about it, but there are likely some ways that make it clearer what you are on about than others.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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