Pannier security

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Bmblbzzz » 30 Jan 2018, 1:52pm

I'm reminded of a conversation about ten years ago with someone who'd been touring Europe on the fairly well worn route to Istanbul. He rode through some quite poor places with less order, such as Bulgaria, and a lot of rich, orderly ones, but the only place he encountered any crime was camping in Vienna, just about the wealthiest and most orderly place he went through. Both his panniers were stolen one night. But the details are interesting: It was such a hot, dry night he hadn't put his tent up but slept in the open. Did this make his luggage more vulnerable because it wasn't in a tent? I'm not sure, a lot of people leave theirs out anyway and I can't remember what he did. And then the thief was stricken by conscience. Finding one pannier was full of medicine, they returned it (just the medicine, not the pannier). This was still during the night. If they had known what the medicine was, they would have been able to sell it on the black market for more than the rest of his luggage (and bike probably) combined.

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pjclinch
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Re: Pannier security

Postby pjclinch » 30 Jan 2018, 1:56pm

tommydog wrote:
I agree that they primarily want the panniers and not the contents.


I think there are probably too many different values of "they" for this to be a useful assumption.
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andrew_s
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Re: Pannier security

Postby andrew_s » 30 Jan 2018, 1:59pm

You could attach the pannier to the rack with a U-bolt round one of the rack legs, through a couple of holes in the back of the pannier, and bolted inside.
Waterproofing can be taken care of by clamping rubber washers either side of the material (Ortlieb's are available as spares).

If you are worried about someone emptying all your stuff out and unbolting the pannier from the inside, you could swap the U-bolt for a shaped aluminium block with 2 M5 tapped holes in it, and attach using two allen bolts from the inside (through a plate), with hexlox in the allen sockets.

Since the panniers will be nearly permanently attached to the bike, you'll also want drybags or similar to hold what goes in the panniers.

You should also be aware that having your panniers not readily removable from the bike will make a rear wheel puncture very awkward.

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mjr
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Re: Pannier security

Postby mjr » 30 Jan 2018, 4:30pm

andrew_s wrote:You should also be aware that having your panniers not readily removable from the bike will make a rear wheel puncture very awkward.

I think you mean it'll make it even more worthwhile patching a rear wheel puncture without removing the wheel ;)
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andrew_s
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Re: Pannier security

Postby andrew_s » 30 Jan 2018, 5:22pm

mjr wrote:I think you mean it'll make it even more worthwhile patching a rear wheel puncture without removing the wheel ;)

I don't know about the "even more", but fixed panniers would probably make in-situ patching just about necessary, rain or no rain.
There would be a strong case for running M+, regardless of their weight.

tommydog
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Re: Pannier security

Postby tommydog » 31 Jan 2018, 4:58pm

andrew_s wrote:You could attach the pannier to the rack with a U-bolt round one of the rack legs, through a couple of holes in the back of the pannier, and bolted inside.
Waterproofing can be taken care of by clamping rubber washers either side of the material (Ortlieb's are available as spares).


I think that's what I will probably do and have some steel plate either side of the fixings with some sort of security nuts. I may also stain the panniers with some permanent ink, so they look rubbish and unattractive to a thief.

Also I wonder if the Ortlieb logo could be removed by using something like isopropyl alcohol? I could also bond some Chinese writing on there, so that the thief thinks it is generic Chinese stuff that has little resale value.

simonhill
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Re: Pannier security

Postby simonhill » 1 Feb 2018, 5:21am

Tommydog:

First question: where are you going?

Second question: where (and why) do you intend to leave your loaded bike that makes it so vulnerable.

Third question: don't you think you are getting a bit paranoid?

- but thanks for a good laugh.

Two heavy duty locks, solid permanently fixed panniers, GPS tracker, distressing your panniers, etc. Wow.

tommydog
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Re: Pannier security

Postby tommydog » 1 Feb 2018, 9:50am

simonhill wrote:Tommydog:

First question: where are you going?

Second question: where (and why) do you intend to leave your loaded bike that makes it so vulnerable.

Third question: don't you think you are getting a bit paranoid?

- but thanks for a good laugh.

Two heavy duty locks, solid permanently fixed panniers, GPS tracker, distressing your panniers, etc. Wow.


Well I live in Oxford and apart from the dreaming spires, it can be like the wild west for having things stolen. Only a few months ago my partner had her Brookes saddle stolen from her Brompton despite it being secured with a chain to the bike. All in broad daylight in the centre of town. My friend also had his empty panniers stolen, despite locking them to the bike in the centre of town. My other friend had 2 Bromptons stolen. I myself have had so many things stolen over the years (3 bikes, 2 cars, 2 motorcycles, 2 trailers and a boat.) I am very careful where I leave my things. I drive Defenders and have now resulted to a steering lock, wheel clamp and various home made immobilisers / alarms. My car trailers have heavy duty locks secured to a ground anchor and 1 wheel removed when they are on my drive. Since I have started to up my security, I have not been targeted. It may be a laugh for you, but it's not for me. It's not even the cost of the items, it's the feeling you have been violated. I am determined not to be a victim again.

simonhill
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Re: Pannier security

Postby simonhill » 1 Feb 2018, 3:13pm

Fair enough, but where are you doing all your touring? You didn't answer my first and second question.

I don't ask this capriciously, because as a regular long distance tourer (currently in SE Asia) I may be able to give some advice or reassurance.

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stephenjubb
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Re: Pannier security

Postby stephenjubb » 2 Feb 2018, 3:17pm

Not always possible for everyone, but I could never leave my bike with all my gear on ( even if locked ) for a few hours. For this I basecamp, then I only have to lock the bike. If I arrive somewhere late on an evening, I'll then stay the next day and explore as described.

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Re: Pannier security

Postby paul.lowe2 » 4 Apr 2018, 5:35pm

https://www.ortlieb.com/en/Anti-Theft-D ... ro_classic
These attachments provide some measure of security. They would not stop a determined thief though.
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tommydog
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Re: Pannier security

Postby tommydog » 4 Apr 2018, 11:24pm

paul.lowe2 wrote:https://www.ortlieb.com/en/Anti-Theft-Device%20for%20QL2.1%20bags/?parent=backrollerpro_classic
They would not stop a determined thief though.


They would not stop a 5 year old with a decent pair of scissors. Not worth wasting money on such trash. Things like this only act to give a false sense of security.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Bmblbzzz » 5 Apr 2018, 9:55am

They're designed to stop an opportunist thief simply picking up the panniers and walking off with them, aren't they? Of course they do nothing against rifling.

tommydog
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Re: Pannier security

Postby tommydog » 5 Apr 2018, 10:34am

Bmblbzzz wrote:They're designed to stop an opportunist thief.



I think the word opportunist is meaningless. I would say it is highly probable that nearly every "opportunist" will at the minimum have a small pair of pocket cutters which can be had for a couple of pounds. Yesterday I went into town and every bike I saw was locked, yet I know countless people who have had bikes stolen. People constantly bang on about stopping the "opportunist" but it's a false narrative.

I do make a distinction between a thief who makes his living form crime, and the scruffy teenager who occasionally goes out stealing for pocket money. But I would have thought that either type of thief will at the minimum have the most basic tools.

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mjr
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Re: Pannier security

Postby mjr » 5 Apr 2018, 12:14pm

tommydog wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:They're designed to stop an opportunist thief.


I think the word opportunist is meaningless. I would say it is highly probable that nearly every "opportunist" will at the minimum have a small pair of pocket cutters which can be had for a couple of pounds. [...]

That's not an opportunist. That's a tooled-up thief, albeit one with only basic tools. Anyone with a pair of pocket cutters can cut their way into most panniers anyway, so it doesn't really matter if they can cut the anti-lift/opening cable instead, does it? Such cables are good enough to stop someone simply lifting the bag off while waiting at junctions, although a small screw-barrel wire will do that same more cheaply but less slickly.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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