Where to report close passes?

[Richard D]

Especially when you know that they will NFA it anyway

[thirdcrank]

viewtopic.php?p=1145383#p1145383

Scroll down to the bottom for info about reporting.

FWIW, I think it's naïve to expect to be able to dash off a complaint and expect the police to take it to conclusion without any further personal involvement. Anybody reporting something like this needs to work on the assumption that it may go to court as a not guilty plea and their evidence ie in the witness box will be crucial. There's no shortcut to a result.

[rmurphy195]

Before I can go to court, the process needs to start with an NIP for the perpetrator - we are way past this now.

In respect of the two complaints I made to West Mercia

The first has finally, after chasing, yielded a reply stating why no further action will be taken. Quote "With regards to the Alcester Road incident, the Sergeant's decision is that there is no corroborative evidence for a successful prosecution and feels that it is not in the public interest to pursue. By corroborative evidence we mean CCTV or other independent witnesses. Criminal offences require an exceptionally high standard of proof in order to secure a conviction. In effect this means that there must be some independent corroborative evidence to have a realistic prospect of conviction. We appreciate that you had head cam footage but essentially this was not enough evidence to prosecute. In addition, with regards to the speed of the vehicle involved, the footage does not measure the vehicles speed so we have no way of proving this."

The second, send on the same day, was forwarded to another officer to deal with, I am still awaiting an update, apparently it is with the officer's sergeant for review. It's only taken since mid-April, even so I suspect that a) The time limit has passed(!) and b) It will get the same response as the other complaint in any case.

I had of course expected to attend a court hearing if necessary, no point making a complaint otherwise, or to have accepted that a warning had been sent to the driver however there seems little point in making such complaints if my own video evidence is clearly not enough.

At present I feel that it is simply made to be too time-consuming and long-winded to make a complaint in the first instance even if the relevant force has a current campaign on the go, plus different forces seem to have different processes. And I live right on the border so depending on which part of my ride I am on I have to look on a map to see who to complain to!

[fastpedaller]

The cynic in me says they (the authorities) are just paying lip service to the problem of close passes, and that all such reports will be gathered to make up a 'statistic' that cycling is dangerous and cyclists should therefore be removed from the road.

[mjr]

The cynic in me says they (the authorities) are just paying lip service to the problem of close passes, and that all such reports will be gathered to make up a 'statistic' that cycling is dangerous and cyclists should therefore be removed from the road.

We have no sign of that in Norfolk yet (next Casualty Reduction Partnership subgroup meeting which covers cycling is next Wednesday), although the current police commissioner so far seems less wise about cycling safety than the previous one and made silly cyclist-blaming comments before election, so it remains a slight concern. The initial targetting of phoney drivers for dash/bike cam evidence does give me some hope that they're focusing on the perpetrators of road collisions rather than the victims, though.

[thirdcrank]

... At present I feel that it is simply made to be too time-consuming and long-winded to make a complaint in the first instance even if the relevant force has a current campaign on the go, plus different forces seem to have different processes. And I live right on the border so depending on which part of my ride I am on I have to look on a map to see who to complain to!

I doubt if anybody is trying to make it too complicated to report things. The entire criminal legal system is time-consuming and long-winded or trying to be thorough, depending on POV. This is all part of the reason that witnesses don't want "to get involved," especially second time round.

The evidence in every complaint of an offence which is investigated with a view to prosecution has to be gathered in statement form then assessed. This will inevitably be time-consuming. As a recent contentious example, back in the days of big demonstrations, pickets etc., schemes were devised to speed up the procedures for dealing with people who had been arrested. That was largely to free-up the arresting officer ASAP. One element of this was the pro-forma statement, where the arresting officer just had to fill in the blanks. I give you the recent demands for an enquiry into Orgreave, one of the points made being that all the police statements had large parts in common.

The ordinary police forces of England and Wales are all organised locally and always have been. They are thus supposed to be more representative of the communities they serve. Within the last few years, elected Police and Crime Commissioners have been introduced to reinforce this local control and direction. On a practical note, there has been a tendency to align the boundaries of police forces, court areas and CPS. All this makes the accurate identification of the location of an incident important.

If you want your report(s) to result in a prosecution, concentrate on co-operating with the relevant police force. If you want to demonstrate how things like this are often rubbish, I think most of us have worked that out already.

[rmurphy195]

Well, my next step - having given myself until the end of the month to calm down/check for a response in respect of the second incident (For which I have now been given a reference number), is to formulate a "Processes and Procedures" complaint to send to whoever.

It won't be the first time - I did this with West Mids a couple of years ago when I was knocked off the bike. The TPO lost the attending PC's report until the complaints team got onto it, whereupon it was magically recovered (They started by saying they had no record of the incident, then changed their minds and said they had had the report and tried to blame the attending PC for their lack of action once my complaint was made).

[Richard D]

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1145383#p1145383

Scroll down to the bottom for info about reporting.

FWIW, I think it's naïve to expect to be able to dash off a complaint and expect the police to take it to conclusion without any further personal involvement. Anybody reporting something like this needs to work on the assumption that it may go to court as a not guilty plea and their evidence ie in the witness box will be crucial. There's no shortcut to a result.

Reported a close pass and assault by passenger that happened to me last Friday. Despite making it as easy for them as I possibly can (wrote my own S9 statement, provided them with a copy of the camera footage in unedited, edited highlights and slo-mo files, on an evidential DVD from our accredited CCTV room), they're still making a real meal of it. "We probably won't take it any further as there were no independent witnesses, and no CCTV/forensics“ - what was my 720 60FPS video then, Scotch mist?

Fingers crossed that the traffic unit are more interested than the force investigation unit. I got the impression that the Police wanted to make it difficult to report matters because they lack the resources to investigate properly or prosecute at all. Leaving me feeling that it's the law of the jungle that holds sway.

Idoubt if anybody is trying to make it too complicated to report things. The entire criminal legal system is time-consuming and long-winded or trying to be thorough, depending on POV.

I'm *extremely* familiar with how the legal system works. But I stand by what I say - even handed to them on a plate, the Police made things much, much more difficult than the court process demands. The first PC I spoke to wanted to debate the law with me (unwise, given what I have done for a living); when the second one started it, I realised that there was absolutely no point in continuing to bang my head against a brick wall.

[rmurphy195]

Finally had a reply today (27 July 2017) in respect of the second incident "...as the camera is facing forward and the vehicle approaches from behind, the distance between yourself and the vehicle cannot be definitively determined, as is the case with the speed at which the vehicle is travelling".

Here is the video of this incident (the black Audi, cutting in very sharply): https://youtu.be/l8hJO4Z2JrI

Here is a video of the first incident (the red Citroen): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w24FbPX ... e=youtu.be

Both of these incidents were recorded on the same journey on 9th April with the same handlebar-mounted camera, and reported to the same police force on 12th April.

Both had the appropriate form filled-in and supporting video supplied Neither are pursued - one because my own camera is not independent, corroborative evidence, the other because its pointing the wrong way.

So there is not only inconsistency between the traffic offices of different police forces, but even within the same office in the same force.

My current feeling, given the timescale, is that these weren't looked at in time so a rationale has been devised to disguise the fact.

[fastpedaller]

Both had the appropriate form filled-in and supporting video supplied Neither are pursued - one because my own camera is not independent, corroborative evidence,

An interesting (and of course ridiculous excuse from the Police)...... So if a motorist is video'd speeding, the get out is "it's not independent corroborative evidence?" I think not.

[thirdcrank]

...If you want to demonstrate how things like this are often rubbish, I think most of us have worked that out already. ...

Dealing with bad driving is no longer a priority: not my policy so it's no good getting annoyed with me. Nowadays, drivers are regularly involved in collisions which receive no attention; it's no surprise - at least to me - that near misses do not receive more attention than actual collisions. Just to emphasise: no point killing the messenger. Not much point either in blaming individual police officers who are simply stuck with the current priorities.

On the specific matter of using cameras for corroboration and speaking as somebody who initially thought they were the answer to a prayer, I've come to appreciate that the evidence they produce can have shortcomings. I'm prepared to bet that the actual passing distances in both the linked clips were much closer than they appear on screen. In other words, to have real evidential value in a criminal prosecution they need expert analysis to calculate distances and speeds and even then, they may be unconvincing: first impressions count, at least to the extent of creating a reasonable doubt. Martin Porter's experience is worth reading:-

http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... on-2b.html.

[san0]

Please anyone update us on the website where I can report bad drivers? Unfortunately my aging GoPro does not capture the reg plate clearly enough, or the side of the van
https://youtu.be/GUeqT0jST-Y

[fastpedaller]

Look like Chris Jones & son to me
ETA, You live near Reading? (I've just googled!)

[san0]

Not another one! So can someone actually tell me the website where to upload these videos of dangerous drivers? https://youtu.be/_CuRvk8A6Ho

[mjr]

Not another one! So can someone actually tell me the website where to upload these videos of dangerous drivers? https://youtu.be/_CuRvk8A6Ho

If you're near Reading, as previously suggested, https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/ro/r ... -evidence/ is probably the one to use. They don't like them being posted to youtube first.