Cycling UK Forum

[XAP]Bob wrote:

gaz wrote:

landsurfer wrote:They wear ... clear glasses ( what is that about !!!) ...

Keeping all manner of rubbish out of their eyes, at least that's why I wear mine. I've run out of 50p Swiss-One boot fair specials and have moved on to Bollé at about £6-£7.

I had a bumble bee bounce off the right lens of my glasses this week. Made a heck of a bang (I had tried to dodge it, but failed miserably).

I don't like to think how uncomfortable that would have been on my cheek, let alone in my eye.

Had one hit me on the cheek - while I was on my motorbike a about 60+ mph. It hurt, much not as much as the lighted cigarette end that got stuck under the edge of my helmet!

What's "lowly" about a Brompton?

Certainly not the price!

Dave W wrote:Same with bibshorts £9.99 in Aldi, £150 for a pair of Assos in LBS.

There's a very good reason for that.
Currently I have a Kask Rapido that cost £50.My mate has a Kask Mojito that cost £120.The difference is night and day.The Mojito fits better and the straps are far superior quality.Is it it worth over 60% more?To me yes as it's far more comfortable.

I found relatively cheap Uvex helmets seem to fit my head the best, so manufacturers are unable to claim improved 'fit' as a justification for charging more.

The topography of a riders cranium has no correlation with prices charged by different helmet manufacturers.

And what exactly do people mean when they talk about 'quality'? Its a word bandied about that is often meaningless in its application to commercial products. Even cheap helmets have straps that are liable to outlast the rest of the helmet, and which will not break in a collision. Therefore, their quality is sufficient for the job at hand, and more expensive straps would not improve on that in any meaningful way.

One word for me fashion. If the helmets used by the pro's then they become more desirable and of cause the costs then soar.

I recently needed to replace my £80 helmet and read this really positive review of the BTwin 500 helmet at £17 http://road.cc/content/review/192302-bt ... ike-helmet. High-tailing down to my local Decathlon. I found the colour I preferred on special offer of £14.99 and the quality/finish top-notch, better than my previous £80 helmet. Its also available in 2 sizes including one that fits my large head.

Downsides? Its slightly heavier than my old helmet and it doesn't look as funky. For a saving of £65 I'll put up with a few grams and loss of a smidgen of cool (not that I ever had any).

Cheers

Lance Dopestrong wrote:And what exactly do people mean when they talk about 'quality'? Its a word bandied about that is often meaningless in its application to commercial products. Even cheap helmets have straps that are liable to outlast the rest of the helmet, and which will not break in a collision. Therefore, their quality is sufficient for the job at hand, and more expensive straps would not improve on that in any meaningful way.

Quality:-
When something not only looks but feels better.A £10 pair of jeans from Asda/Tesco for instance look and feel cheaper than a £70 pair of Levis(and they don't last as long).The Chamois in a £10 pair of Aldi Bib-shorts is thinner and cheaper than a Chamois is a £100 pair of Castelli Bib-shorts(I know as I have both).Price does not necessarily affect quality but in most cases cheaper alternatives are cheaper for a reason and the reason is lesser quality.
Your point regarding straps is a valid one and any straps will "do a job" but not everyone wants straps that will merely "do a job".For me(and I'm sure 100s like me) better straps do improve the experience in a meaningful way.The fit and feel of a helmet is the most important factor when I buy a helmet.If it looks nice too then that's a bonus!If I am to wear something,on a regular basis,for 2-4 hours at a time it has to feel nice.Unfortunately cheaper helmets with cheaper straps etc just don't feel nice.
Over the years I've tried some great looking helmets that just didn't feel right.Giro and Kask work for me.Lazer,Met,Poc and Catlike don't despite all four of them making some cracking looking helmets I simply cannot find one that fits.If I found a £20 lid that had straps as comfortable as a £120 Kask Mojito I'd buy it but I doubt I will because as you pointed out straps on a £20 hemlet are made to simply do a job.

Helmet straps. Hold helmet on head. That is their sole function. How they look is irrelevant, as they all look broadly the same unless examined extremely closely. They all feel the same. We don't wear jeans in out heads to protect them, so its an irrelevant example.

Talk of higher 'quality' of helmet straps to justify marked increases in price is illogical.

Ditto 'fit', because that's entirely dependent upon the topography of the wearers skull, and nothing a helmet manufacturer can do will change that.

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Helmet straps. Hold helmet on head. That is their sole function. How they look is irrelevant, as they all look broadly the same unless examined extremely closely. They all feel the same. We don't wear jeans in out heads to protect them, so its an irrelevant example.

Talk of higher 'quality' of helmet straps to justify marked increases in price is illogical.

Ditto 'fit', because that's entirely dependent upon the topography of the wearers skull, and nothing a helmet manufacturer can do will change that.

The story of the Princess and the pea comes to mind. Some people are just so precious........

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Helmet straps. Hold helmet on head. That is their sole function.

Isn't it merely the sole intended function? They have all sorts of other functions, such as choking people if they get the helmet snagged on a tree, or causing deafening wind noise commonly enough to support a market for noise-reduction add-on products like "Cat Ears". Are more expensive helmets better at not doing these things?

AndyK wrote:

mjr wrote:Please check your helmet manual before potentially negating any protection by wearing another hat underneath it - or worse, a helmet that slips off could easily cause worse injuries than no helmet. Many manufacturers specifically say not to do it.

[citation needed]

A few examples:

Kask: "Never wear anything under your helmet except for a winter cap accessory specifically designed for your helmet and supplied by your helmet manufacturer." (way to corner that winter cap market, Kask!)

Trek/Bontrager: "Anything between your head and the helmet can reduce the protection. A cap, scarf, or even some high-volume hairstyles might allow the helmet to move during an impact. Barrettes, headphones, or anything else under your helmet can injure you if the helmet is impacted."

Giant: "YOU SHOULD NEVER ... Wear anything under your helmet"

Specialized :
"Do not wear anything underneath your helmet, such as a cap, hood, bundled hair, headphones, barrettes, as the helmet may loosen or come off."

Bell :
YOU SHOULD NEVER:
"5. Wear anything under your helmet."

Giro
"4) DON’T Wear anything hard or sharp under your helmet."

AndyK wrote:Not my helmet manual (Kask) or the couple of others I just found on Google.

Kask generally do now (see above) although I didn't find a manual specifically for the Mojito.

I wouldn't buy a Kask because I've had the ASA get an advert for the Kask Mojito withdrawn because it made safety claims they couldn't substantiate. It's maybe second only to Met (one model failed a Which? test and the company response was completely unsatisfactory) as a brand I'd advise against.

AndyK wrote:Obviously bulky headgear should be avoided (baseball caps especially) but a close-fitting cover with flat seams, like a merino beanie or Buff, effectively makes your head a little bit bigger. So long as that increased head size remains within the helmet's design limits, it should make little difference.

No, even a close-fitting cover with flat seams can help a helmet to slide around and not provide the designed impact protection in a crash. Please follow the manufacturer's advice and tell others to do so. Telling others to still use a helmet but to ignore the maker's instructions is a logically-inconsistent position: if you think the makers know what they're doing, then you should follow their advice; if you think the makers don't know what they're doing, then why would you trust their products?

Or is this a deliberate attempt to kill off a few helmet users and help the anti-helmet argument? That would be pretty low and IMO misguided.

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Helmet straps. Hold helmet on head. That is their sole function. How they look is irrelevant, as they all look broadly the same unless examined extremely closely. They all feel the same. We don't wear jeans in out heads to protect them, so its an irrelevant example.
Talk of higher 'quality' of helmet straps to justify marked increases in price is illogical

I disagree.
How they look is irrelevant but how they feel is completely different.Worlds apart in some cases.
The jeans reference was regarding your question on quality so totally relevant.I could have used jeans,cycle helmets,football boots or any product.Higher quality items generally cost more regardless of what they are.You simply cannot argue against that.Whether or not they cost the equivalent increase to produce is irrelevant.They cost what they cost.
A Ferrari costs upward of £100,000 does it cost more than a Type R Civic to produce?Possibly...but three or four times more?
Bikes range in price from £50 to upwards of £10K by your reasoning there's no difference in quality?

When push comes to shove if you don't think a product is worth the money don't buy it!Just because you're not prepared to pay for higher priced items does not mean that the items are not higher quality.You just don't think they are.

pete75 wrote:
The story of the Princess and the pea comes to mind. Some people are just so precious........

Quite so. Some people just soak up and regurgitate all of the cycling cliches. So sad.

I have just broken my helmet after being knocked off by a bus. I took such a hard bang on the road I expected it to be well smashed , but it fared reasonably well . It was a £15 lidl job . I have found it light and a nice fit and am wondering how to replace it . I have more expensive helmets but cannot see any advantage in them.

De Sisti wrote:

pete75 wrote:
The story of the Princess and the pea comes to mind. Some people are just so precious........

Quite so. Some people just soak up and regurgitate all of the cycling cliches. So sad.

Mmmm.
So it's "precious" and sad that some people actually prefer to wear something that not only fits but is comfortable...or does this just relate to cycling helmets?
Would you wear a pair of shoes or trainers that aren't comfortable?Personally I wear a certain brand and style that I've been wearing since the 80s because they're very comfortable.No idea how many times they've been in and out of fashion they're comfortable.Same with Jeans.
Why would I not do the same with a Helmet?I've bought and tried dozens of helmets over the years ranging from £15-£150 and the fact is that the more expensive ones tend to fit and have better strapping systems than the cheaper ones.Not precious or sad but a fact.As I stated earlier if I found a £20 helmet as comfortable as the one I'm about to buy I'd buy it but it doesn't exist,or at least I can't find it.
From what I've read this seems to be more about money.The "I wouldn't pay that" brigade seem to want to ridicule those who will pay that.Things cost money that's a fact.Some people seem to be reluctant to part with money.That is also a fact.You can't take it with you is another fact

I'm looking for a new(second hand car).I don't particularly want to spend £20k on a box with wheels but it's unfortunate that to get what I need I'll have to.I could probably spend £5k less on a less prestige brand but if I'm to keep it 6 or 7 years I prefer to get what I'm happy with.
Precious I know