eBay & inner tubes

[meic]

Here is a video showing the difficulty of removing a rear wheel.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fast+ ... el+of+bike

[Alan O]

You know, I really don't see any point in arguing about the two ways of doing it - because there's no right way and no wrong way.

To use a couple of extremes as examples, I remember fixing a puncture caused by a nail. It was clearly obvious where the puncture was, and just pulling out a little of the tube without removing the wheel was the easiest way to do it in my view. For one thing, it removed any risk that I'd lose the orientation and have to search for the puncture location (I know you can line up the valve with a specific mark on the tyre to help, but I never think of that until after I've put the wheel back on).

But I've also had a puncture that deflated relatively slowly (over the course of minutes) and there was no sign on the outside of what caused it. In that case, I thought removing the wheel and whole tube was the better way to locate the puncture, and ended up using some water from my drink bottle to find it - it was really tiny (and I didn't find the cause - I guess I got lucky and it had dropped out).

So I'd say the "best" is a combination of which you're more comfortable with and which is more appropriate to the individual puncture.

(As for removing the rear wheel, sometimes I get it off so slick I should be in an instructional video, and sometimes I get in an embarrassing tangle of arms, wheel, frame and chain)

[Gattonero]

Need to step up the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqTDuGfqYCw

Though I've said before there's no real "right" or "wrong" but what suits best the situation, it's not the case to make a drama out of a simple thing as removing a bicycle wheel. Enforce Rule #5!
Really, if one finds that removing a bicycle wheel is such an hassle as an excuse to prop up his threory, you may as well stay comfy at home in the sofa

[hondated]

MikeF Re It's slightly more difficult on a rear wheel as the chain needs to be unhooked, but not much more
That has reminded me of when I use to ride old Triumph & BSA motorbikes and on them you could remove the rear wheel and chain in place.
Its such a simple idea I am surprised it as never been used on bicycles.

[mjr]

Though I've said before there's no real "right" or "wrong" but what suits best the situation, it's not the case to make a drama out of a simple thing as removing a bicycle wheel. Enforce Rule #5!
Really, if one finds that removing a bicycle wheel is such an hassle as an excuse to prop up his threory, you may as well stay comfy at home in the sofa

Firstly, however much as you and your fellow Velominati rule-slaves may want to try to scare pootlers off their bikes by overcomplicating simple repairs, we've as much right to ride as you, so :p

Secondly, you can tell wheel removal is not simple for everyone by the sheer number of how-to guides out there. Even the pro mechanics who can usually swap wheels in a few seconds can sometimes end up taking over a minute futzing around. Most of the recent ones I remember aren't online (I guess the sponsors aren't proud of them and most race coverage is copyrighted and shows multiple trademarks, giving an easy way to take them down) but see for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl_eqDVRnJc

Finally, I never said "such a hassle" - just that it's obviously quicker and easier not to do tasks that are completely unnecessary.

[Gattonero]

Fellow Velominati?
I simply agree with that "rule", which is very much my view on many things: "stop whining and get over it".
Such simple task of removing a wheel, whether is necessary or not, becoming a drama, makes me think there's no need to find a problem to a solution that is already there.

Like said, there are many circumstances where the cause of the puncture simply cannot be seen. Also, removing the wheel often gives a better position to inflate the tyre, which happens to take a lot longer than removing a wheel.

The youtube video you've liked, it just shows what I'm saying. The "disaster" in replacing a wheel has slowed down the rider by 30 seconds. Thirty seconds!
Now, not only the humble tourist is not bothered by the loss of 30 seconds, that pro mechanic too is not entirely guilty because he's of Neutral Service so he's trying to fit a wheel that is not for that particular bike. If he was from the Team he'd be sacked. Proper mechanics and riders are more skilled, see the video above how quick can change a bike during the race

[Brucey]

MikeF Re It's slightly more difficult on a rear wheel as the chain needs to be unhooked, but not much more
That has reminded me of when I use to ride old Triumph & BSA motorbikes and on them you could remove the rear wheel and chain in place.
Its such a simple idea I am surprised it as never been used on bicycles.

actually it has been. But the parts were of course proprietary in nature, and slightly more expensive and less versatile than standard parts, so the idea died a death.

I'd comment that removing wheels is not usually very difficult, even with a chaincase. But it can be time consuming even if you know what you are doing and if you don't it can seem rather complicated. If you are used to working on bikes it is difficult to comprehend what a struggle it can be for those who don't have any aptitude or experience; you may as well be asking someone who is tone deaf to carry a tune....

cheers

[mjr]

Like said, there are many circumstances where the cause of the puncture simply cannot be seen.

And yet, we've had no realistic example of these "many circumstances". The few that can't be seen, the escaping air after reinflation can usually be heard or felt and most of the remainder are revealed by wetting the tyre and watching for bubbles.

Also, removing the wheel often gives a better position to inflate the tyre, which happens to take a lot longer than removing a wheel.

The best wheel position for inflating the tyre is standing up, on the bicycle, using a hose-connected pump.

The youtube video you've liked, it just shows what I'm saying. The "disaster" in replacing a wheel has slowed down the rider by 30 seconds. Thirty seconds!

As I noted, I've seen far worse, but they seem to be not on youtube.

Now, not only the humble tourist is not bothered by the loss of 30 seconds, that pro mechanic too is not entirely guilty because he's of Neutral Service so he's trying to fit a wheel that is not for that particular bike. If he was from the Team he'd be sacked. Proper mechanics and riders are more skilled, see the video above how quick can change a bike during the race

So, Shimano's mechanics are improper and unskilled!

[Gattonero]

You've seem to have not read my prev. posts?

Well, let's start with an example of puncture when it's hard to find the cause of the puncture itself. Say rain and/or mud.
Good luck. There may be 50 small flints in the tyre and you won't really know which one has actually made it trough.
The tyre will have air escaping by its bead so unless you're lucky to have a neat hole/cut that reveals the position of the puncture, you're up on the search: time for searching thoroughly the tyre can be minutes if the tyre is still on, while with the tyre off you run your hand inside and the object will find your hand (ain't big deal).

With regards of pumping the tyre, I've made it clear that not everyone has a pump with the hose, and yet it could be easier to have the wheel only to find the most proficient position to pump the tyre.

The team mechanic video you've linked is neutral service, again, he is losing thirty seconds which are difference between lose or win during a race, but completely pointless for the humble cyclotourist.
And you are not seeing that being Neutral Service, they have wheels that may not even be with a suitable cassette for the bike, they're purely emergency wheels. That's why the guy wasted "so much time".
And yes, given that I personally know a few of those chaps that sit in Team Cars, the bikes and spares are checked before, even the skewers are pre-set to correct width for the frame, so you don't find yourself in trouble when the repair needs to.

If you're always fine by repairing an inner tube by keeping the wheel in, that's fine.
But please don't say that is not necessary, or make it sound like is the end of the world and a massive hassle, to open a brake claiper and flick a skewer to remove the wheel. By the way, in the Mtb world pinch-flats were very common so the wheel almost always had to be removed. No wise cyclist has died or got late two hours because of that.

Like said, there are many circumstances where the cause of the puncture simply cannot be seen.

And yet, we've had no realistic example of these "many circumstances". The few that can't be seen, the escaping air after reinflation can usually be heard or felt and most of the remainder are revealed by wetting the tyre and watching for bubbles.

Also, removing the wheel often gives a better position to inflate the tyre, which happens to take a lot longer than removing a wheel.

The best wheel position for inflating the tyre is standing up, on the bicycle, using a hose-connected pump.

The youtube video you've liked, it just shows what I'm saying. The "disaster" in replacing a wheel has slowed down the rider by 30 seconds. Thirty seconds!

As I noted, I've seen far worse, but they seem to be not on youtube.

Now, not only the humble tourist is not bothered by the loss of 30 seconds, that pro mechanic too is not entirely guilty because he's of Neutral Service so he's trying to fit a wheel that is not for that particular bike. If he was from the Team he'd be sacked. Proper mechanics and riders are more skilled, see the video above how quick can change a bike during the race

So, Shimano's mechanics are improper and unskilled!

[mjr]

That's what I mean by unrealistic: air does not escape past the bead quickly enough to stop identification of the puncture and who ever had 50 plausible causes stuck in the tyre at once? OK, in that freak case, maybe you'll want to remove the wheel, but it seems a bit once in a lifetime. Not a good argument for wheel removal as normal practice.

If your pump requires a wheel to be removed to pump it safely, get a better one ASAP. That's far worse than using an adjustable spanner.

[Gattonero]

On a quick one, a pump like this is a favourite of many, it does work indeed well in its semplicity

[ambodach]

My last puncture was caused by the rim tape moving out of position somehow or more likely badly fitted. This was on my new ( at that time ) Brompton so I was not responsible for the fitting. No way of finding where the puncture was unless the wheel was off. Not all punctures are easy to find so just get on and do it whichever way suits you.

[MikeF]

Removing a wheel is easy with quick release, and it's easy to unclip the brake cables.

Yeah, more bravado. Easier than a wheel without quick-release, but still harder than not doing it.

Bravado?

With the wheel removed, you can check the tyre more thoroughly and of course easily rotate the wheel.

I don't know about your bikes, but the wheels rotate easily on mine

Not with the tube hanging out of the tyre they don't and if you don't want to lay the bike down how do you stop the tube being covered in dirt? If you turn the wheel, the tube will catch on the brake or other parts of the bike and pick up dirt which is a "recipe" for more punctures.

Also you don't have the faff of repairing the puncture itself - that takes time.

Instead you have the greater faff of removing the whole tyre and getting the valve in and out.

You don't have to remove the whole tyre to replace an inner tube, but I often do, to check what has caused the puncture. If it's a fine piece of wire or something that has become totally embedded in the tyre, the only way is to remove the tyre and examine it closely to find the cause. The hardest part of removing a tyre is the initial lift of the bead over the rim and the difficulty varies with tyre and rim width. You have to do that initial lift anyway just to pull the tube out. Also if you don't pull out the tube how do you find the puncture anyway? I can't see how you can do that without laying the bike on its side.

Look, carry on removing and replacing wheels, tyres and tubes if you enjoy it, but it seems absurd to claim it's easier in general.

I don't think anyone enjoys having or repairing punctures. I certainly don't. I just want to do repair one the easiest way possible. I can remove a wheel and hopefully leave the bike more or less upright propped against something suitable. At worst I might have to lay it down on its side in a suitable place. That way I can easily examine the tube and tyre, but with a bike on its side it's not so easy.

[meic]

You don't have to remove the whole tyre to replace an inner tube, but I often do, to check what has caused the puncture.

You dont have to, but almost everybody does. It is much easier and more thorough to check the tyre with your fingers without a wheel being in the way.

[mjr]

Removing a wheel is easy with quick release, and it's easy to unclip the brake cables.

Yeah, more bravado. Easier than a wheel without quick-release, but still harder than not doing it.

Bravado?

Saying removing a wheel is easy. Seriously, watch random cyclists try, or notice the number of people who push home or to a shop when punctured.

With the wheel removed, you can check the tyre more thoroughly and of course easily rotate the wheel.

I don't know about your bikes, but the wheels rotate easily on mine

Not with the tube hanging out of the tyre they don't and if you don't want to lay the bike down how do you stop the tube being covered in dirt?

Why do you need to rotate the wheel after you've found the puncture?

If it's a fine piece of wire or something that has become totally embedded in the tyre, the only way is to remove the tyre and examine it closely to find the cause. The hardest part of removing a tyre is the initial lift of the bead over the rim and the difficulty varies with tyre and rim width. You have to do that initial lift anyway just to pull the tube out. Also if you don't pull out the tube how do you find the puncture anyway? I can't see how you can do that without laying the bike on its side.

I find that the wheels rotate freely when I either move the bike forwards or tilt it on its stand. At no point in repairing a simple puncture does the bike need to be laid down.

I agree that you have to do the initial lift anyway, but I don't use M+ or Armadillo any more so it's not difficult. I also agree that some of the rarer puncture types require a wheel removal, but the more common glass, flints and thorns I get rarely do.

Look, carry on removing and replacing wheels, tyres and tubes if you enjoy it, but it seems absurd to claim it's easier in general.

I don't think anyone enjoys having or repairing punctures. I certainly don't. I just want to do repair one the easiest way possible. I can remove a wheel and hopefully leave the bike more or less upright propped against something suitable.

So you rest your bike on its dropouts or derailleur? I don't like to do that if I don't have to.