information regarding my bike? mercian

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Mick F
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Mick F » 4 Aug 2017, 12:32pm

Looking at my Mercian catalogue that I got from them early 1986 ................. no date on the catalogue, but it must be at least early 1986, and I suspect it's a 1985 edition.

KOM frame is not like the one that lyncho1983 has.
The fork crown is wrong, as are the brake cable guides.
The only frame in the catalogue that has forks correct is the Olympic.

No mention of Nervex lugs anywhere in the catalogue, and none of the frames have wrapover seat stays or two brake cable bosses.

Probably means nothing at all, but I thought I'd mention it. :oops:
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amediasatex
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby amediasatex » 4 Aug 2017, 12:38pm

Mick F wrote:Looking at my Mercian catalogue that I got from them early 1986 ................. no date on the catalogue, but it must be at least early 1986, and I suspect it's a 1985 edition.

KOM frame is not like the one that lyncho1983 has.
The fork crown is wrong, as are the brake cable guides.
The only frame in the catalogue that has forks correct is the Olympic.

No mention of Nervex lugs anywhere in the catalogue, and none of the frames have wrapover seat stays or two brake cable bosses.

Probably means nothing at all, but I thought I'd mention it. :oops:


You may be correct in that it might not be a KOM, but I think your last line is probably the correct answer!

I have certainly seen (in person) other 80s Mercians that were built with Nervex lugs, I imagine they are/were available as a special request.

The Mercian Catalogues are pretty meaningless unless it's a 'stock' model, as soon as you start on the custom path pretty much everything is down to what you've chosen, add in little differences between the actual builder wielding the torch and the frame you get and the catalogue can often disagree on anything from one tiny detail to the whole flippin' frame!

On a side note, the 1986 catalogue is available as PDF online here (And I was lucky enough to find an actual paper copy of it too :-)):

http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Mercian%20catalogue%201986%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf

And you can see some frames in there have comments about 'can be built to your specification' and others say 'No alterations'

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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby lyncho1983 » 4 Aug 2017, 12:47pm

thanks for the responses guys.

to be honest im not looking to refurbish the bike as I have no use for it, im going to look to sell it on and hopefully someone will buy it and appreciate it a lot more than I ever could.

the frame its self looks in really good condition however the paint work isn't great and who ever did end up with it(if anyone) would certainly benefit from getting it re-sprayed.

from what you have said and from looking at the catalogues and looking online there are so many variations that you could have with regards to these bikes.

as also previously said, it is worth what some one will pay so I suppose I need to decide what I need to price it at.

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Mick F
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Mick F » 4 Aug 2017, 12:55pm

amediasatex wrote:On a side note, the 1986 catalogue is available as PDF online here (And I was lucky enough to find an actual paper copy of it too :-)):

http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Mercian%20catalogue%201986%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf

And you can see some frames in there have comments about 'can be built to your specification' and others say 'No alterations'

That's not a 1986 catalogue.

The 1986 catalogue has a blue front cover.
That yellow one, is a later one. (I have that one too but can't remember when I got it) From a quick look, they seem similar other than the colour, though not identical in a few areas.

If you look at the front cover, you'll see the Olympic on the far left.
The Olympic in the 1986 blue catalogue is the same as on the front cover but is different to the Olympic inside the yellow catalogue.
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby amediasatex » 4 Aug 2017, 1:07pm

That's not a 1986 catalogue.


Must be mis-labelled* on the site then, now you come to mention it I can;t remember what colour the front of mine is, I'll check tonight!

Do you have any others Mick? Would love scans if you have a scanner :-)

*Although it's possible the '86 catalogues were printed early to show 'new model year' like theyare these days, or still being handed out late into early 87?

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Mick F
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Mick F » 4 Aug 2017, 1:49pm

Give me a while, and I'll scan the blue one.
Just having a cuppa, then it's getting ready to go for an appointment at the local hospital - nowt serious, so don't worry! :D

I'll get round to the scanning tomorrow morning. The Mercian folder with all my receipts and stuff is on the coffee table ready.

Meanwhile, this is me at Mercian handing mine over for refurb in 2007 showing where I wanted another set of bottle bosses.
Handover.jpg
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby eileithyia » 4 Aug 2017, 7:19pm

The frame is 1982 as reflected by the 82 in the number, the random 1 indicates the individual frame builder. What the other numbers are Jeff has no idea but those ordering frames may have had a reason for specific random numbers to be added.
ie When ordering my Wester Ross in case of theft I could have a personalised number on it, eg postcode, as I was living at parents with no idea where I might end up in the world, seemed a bit pointless so had my NI number engraved on the bottom bracket.
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby lyncho1983 » 4 Aug 2017, 8:13pm

Thanks mate and please tell your friend thanks aswell.

Also thanks to everyone who has commented I really appreciate it. Found out a lot more info than I thought I would.

Suppose I just need to decide now how much to sell it for and let someone take it and give it the attention it needs.

Darren

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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby eileithyia » 4 Aug 2017, 8:27pm

Oh and he said in current condition probably sell for around £100, cleaned up and worked on could reach £250
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Mick F » 5 Aug 2017, 9:32am

amediasatex wrote:Do you have any others Mick? Would love scans if you have a scanner :-)
Half an hour with the scanner.
This forum won't upload PDFs, so here they all are as separate pages.

Click them for bigger views.
Front Cover.jpeg
Page1.jpeg
Page2.jpeg
Page3.jpeg
Page4.jpeg
Page5.jpeg
Page6.jpeg
Page7.jpeg
Page8.jpeg
Page9.jpeg
Page10.jpeg
Page11.jpeg
Page12.jpeg
Page13.jpeg
Page14.jpeg
Back Cover.jpeg


Plus, as a bonus, a price list from 1985.
Price List 1985.jpeg
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby amediasatex » 5 Aug 2017, 11:54am

Thanks Mick! that (blue cover) matches exactly with the catalogue and price list I have which I thought was 1985.

The bundle of paperwork I have includes a letter from Mercian saying (truncated) "Thanks for you enquiry, here is our current price list and catalogue" and then the 1985 price list, the blue covered catalogue, and some other typed model descriptions, ie: a kind of text catalogue. So it seems they were either sending the blue covered version out in 1985, or still sending the 1985 price list out in 1986 :lol:

Other than the price list there's no date on any of the other material though, so not sure how we can reliably date it, or the yellow covered version from earlier in the thread for that matter, is there a date on your one or do you just know from when you received it?

The Retrobike Forum has a very good manufacturer catalogue repository fro MTBs but very little for road, which is disappointing, and there doesn't seem to be too many other scans for Mercian knocking about on the web so far...

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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Brucey » 5 Aug 2017, 1:27pm

FWIW I don't think that is a Mercian frame, or if it is it probably doesn't hail from the 1980s. It has very many features that are different from the specification that Mercian offered at that time; to have those features put onto one of their frames would not have been a 'no cost option' and to then build the bike up with a set of budget-price components just would not make sense. The fork crown is one that was popular in the 1960s, the fork blades appear to be the 'old' Reynolds pattern ones (rather than the oval section that was current in the mid 1980s) and some of the other features ( eg it looks as if the frame has a slack seat angle and a steep head angle) also suggest an older frame that was refurbished in the 1980s and fitted out with a new set of (fairly budget) lightweight components.

Possibly some brazing work was carried out on the frame at the same time, eg the addition of the lever bosses (which are not in the usual place, they appear to be closer to the head tube than normal). There is also something odd going on in the rear dropouts; it is difficult to be certain but it looks as if the opening at the front of the dropout has a strong taper to it, which would be an unusual feature.

There are other anomalies; the cable stops for the rear brake cable are a pressed steel type that was used from the 1950s until the 1970s, but would not have been commonplace in the 1980s. Similarly the gear cable routing is over the top of the BB shell and there is a large metal guide for the front mech cable routing; this was a style that was popular in the late 1960s and into the 1970s. The mudguard clearances are enormous; again this would not have been a normal thing in the 1980s. The frame is also wearing a 5s freewheel which appears to occupy all the available space; this suggests a 120mm rear end spacing in the frame; again this is not a feature that you would find on a 1980s frameset.

So overall, to me, the frame doesn't look anything like a 1980s frame of any kind. It might or might not be a Mercian; I'd suggest that you research older Mercian frames; I've seen some 1970s ones that were much, much more modern looking than that. The bare frameset weight and seat pin size will be a guide as to whether the frame is built in lightweight tubing or not.

cheers
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Mick F » 6 Aug 2017, 7:06am

amediasatex wrote:Thanks Mick! that (blue cover) matches exactly with the catalogue and price list I have which I thought was 1985
I've been giving this some thought.

I went out to the USA in early spring 1896 and home in the autumn. USA bi-centennial celebrations.
Before I went, I'd been in discussion with Mrs Mick F and Mercian about buying a frame, and I wrote to Mercian describing what I wanted my Vincitore to be - colour, braze-ons etc. I never kept copies of my letters, but I do have the letters back from Mercian, but they didn't date them! I keep a diary these days, and my earliest one is 1990 sadly.

I have the confirmation of my order for the Vincitore dated 10 July 1986, and an account of what I'd paid as deposit and what I owed. I paid the rest as I could afford it. Total price was £285.34 including postage.

So, the catalogue could well be very very late 1985, which would fit in with their 1985 price list.

I have the yellow catalogue, but I don't know why. Could it be that they sent it to me with the frame? I actually don't know.
My frame arrived by post on a Saturday morning in October of 1986.

I have a 1993 catalogue because I asked them to price up a new frame to the same spec for insurance purposes and they wrote back enclosing it.

Brucey wrote:FWIW I don't think that is a Mercian frame, or if it is it probably doesn't hail from the 1980s.
I'm with you on this Brucey.
From what I've been looking at in these catalogues, there's nothing similar. Especially the brake bosses on the top tube and the wrapover seat stays.
The fact that there's no frame number on the steerer could be because they are replacement forks, but I suspect it's not a Mercian at all.

531c weights ................. if it could be weighed?

My frame is 531c, 23.5", 73deg parallel.
Frame weighs 2170g
Forks weigh 692g
F+F is 2,862g

The head tube still has the headset fixed cups in place, as do the forks.
Electronic kitchen scales may not be dead-on accurate, but the figures must be fairly reasonable.
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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby amediasatex » 6 Aug 2017, 8:30am

I have a 1993 catalogue


Oooooooh, would very much like scans of that one if you're willing Mick! I have a 1993 KOM, would be great print out and pair a 93 catalogue with the original order sheet for it :-)

I have the 1985 one as I also have an '85 Classic (last page) as my winter single speed workhorse and pacer for our club introductory rides.

I'm not sure what to think about whether the OPs frame is original or not, I've never personally seen another Mercian with the wrapover but an earlier poster said they'd shown pics to a friend who had worked for Mercian and the recognised them so I just put that down to me not having seen one.

The Nervex lugs don't ring alarms bells as I know of at least one other Mercian from the 80s, and one from the 90s with Nervex lugs despite them not being in the catalogue, so I think they could be requested as a special order.
Likewise my 85 Classic has over BB cable guides so they don't write it off or preclude it being a later frame on their own, and the fork crown does seem similar to my 85 Classic as welll.... but I do think you're onto something with the other aspects, seat angle, shifter location, clearances etc.

I guess it's had to know for sure without seeing it in person and/or confirming a fame number with Mercian.

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Re: information regarding my bike? mercian

Postby Mick F » 6 Aug 2017, 9:19am

Here's a photo of the front cover and the KOM page.
Busy later and for some time today, but I'll get round to scanning it.
IMG_0161.JPG
IMG_0162.JPG
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