Scottish Access Query

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
StirlingCrispin
Posts: 35
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 3:51pm

Scottish Access Query

Postby StirlingCrispin » 13 Sep 2017, 9:28pm

Hi
The local university (in Scotland) is claiming that small groups of cyclists running coaching sessions on their campus require permission from them and evidence of a risk assessment. They have been expelled from campus by a security guard.

This is complete nonsense but before I reply back I would really like someone to confirm this for me.
The group had a risk assessment but I do not see why they should share it as this would then be the thin edge of the wedge.

I believe that the security guard was acting in breach of Scottish Law which states that cyclists and pedestrians have a right to be on campus grounds and that permission from the land owner is not required. The source legisation (The Land Reform Act 2003) is very clear on this matter (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/203/2 - as summarised in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/t ... troduction.)

The four adults were teaching the eight children how to use their brakes effectively in a safe environment on an unlandscaped grassy slope. The SOAC states explicitly that if the children came on their own they would they be entitled to cycle on campus (paragraph 2.2). That the adults were coaching them is of no relevance (paragraph 2.9) and no permission is required.

We think the uni is taking the Land Reform guidance for "events" (which require permission) and extending to cover "activities". The Guidance (page 4)
http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/SOAC/Outdoor ... otland.pdf clearly says that "Group outings by club members are not classified as events" and the chart for events size describes small events as 25-50 cyclists - so less than 25 riders not even registering.

So, before I return with a loud raspberry does any have a further take on this please.
Thanks for your help.

bogmyrtle
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Joined: 5 Mar 2008, 10:29pm

Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby bogmyrtle » 13 Sep 2017, 10:06pm

The Uni have responsibility to ensure the health and safety of persons on their premises. It therefore isn't an unreasonable request that anyone putting on any kind of event (and particularly involving children) has been adequately risk assessed.
A bike does more miles to the banana than a Porsche.

LollyKat
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Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby LollyKat » 14 Sep 2017, 9:29am

I'm sure that bogmyrtle is correct. Also your four adults may need PVG disclosure records.

JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby JohnW » 14 Sep 2017, 10:24am

LollyKat wrote:I'm sure that bogmyrtle is correct. Also your four adults may need PVG disclosure records.


I don't know how Scotland differs, probably effectively not at all. I've never worked with children, but both my daughters are teachers, and my wife works in a school, and I know how very complicated this all is. I hear bits of spin-off information and the little that I do know about all this suggests that it's best to find out the full implications before starting such a venture, in addition to any specific/local rules imposed by the site owner/authorities. For example, the CTC (CUK) has a child and vulnerable persons protection policy document.

Risk assessment is only part of it but it'd probably be required whether or not the people being worked with are children or vulnerable adults.

bogmyrtle
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Joined: 5 Mar 2008, 10:29pm

Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby bogmyrtle » 14 Sep 2017, 1:34pm

Health & safety law is the same in Scotland. PVG is the Scottish equivalent of CRB checks.
Any risk assessment on work with young or vulnerable groups should identify the need for such checks.
The whole point in risk assessment is to illustrate that the potential hazards have been identified and that appropriate safeguards are in place. I don't understand the OPs reluctance to make this available to the Uni.
The OP hadn't mentioned anything about insurance. This is something that shouldn't be ignored.
A bike does more miles to the banana than a Porsche.

JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby JohnW » 14 Sep 2017, 3:39pm

bogmyrtle wrote:...............The OP hadn't mentioned anything about insurance. This is something that shouldn't be ignored.

............Oh yes................absolutely............! :!: :!: :!:

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pjclinch
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
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Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby pjclinch » 15 Sep 2017, 8:21am

As the above suggest, it's not really an access issue. if it's people just riding their bikes then that's an access issue, but if you're running coaching sessions for kids there are whole other cans of worms.

But the cans of worms aren't actually that big, or wriggly, if you play ball. Have a word with Cycling Scotland about what you want to do and they should be able to help you with everything you need.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Tinnishill
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Joined: 15 Sep 2013, 9:58am

Re: Scottish Access Query

Postby Tinnishill » 18 Sep 2017, 10:39am

Is your desired area in the city or out in the countryside ? Under the 2003 Land Reform Act any private property in a built up area is regarded as "curtilage" and excluded from access privileges. In areas outside of built up areas the Access Code allows estate managers, pretty much on a whim, to shut off areas of open countryside for unspecified “management” purposes. The Access Code rules do not affect Public Rights of Way. If you are passing through the property as part of a longer journey you have a greater freedom of access on Rights of Way, but unlike in England there is no easily accessible public map; the routes of Scottish Public Rights of Way are held as restricted information. In order to discover if your route is a Right of Way you would have to visit either the Scottish Right of Way and Access Society office in Edinburgh or your local planning office (who often charge a fee for the privilege). There is an outside chance that a route might be on the Council Access Officer's Core Paths website map; these maps are by no means definitive.

Regarding your local University, if you want to use the site I think that it would be worth contacting the highest level of management you can identify. Scottish Universities are part private business and part charity. They have a public commitment to support their local communities and take environmental improvement action. For example, here is a link to Stirling University's policy : http://www.stir.ac.uk/safetyandsustaina ... community/ . Quote their own words back at them.
Agitate, educate, organise.