retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 13780
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
To me in my tiny mind the question is whether op's bike should have instructions OR is a typical buyer thick!
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Any advice please

Post by pete75 »

tatanab wrote: The manual would also have to tell you how to set saddle and handlebar position to fit the purchaser. It seems too much to expect to me.

AMongst other things such as correct adjustment of brakes, cables and gears that's just the sort of information the manual which came with a new bike used to and still should contain. Example below is the sort of handbook supplied witha seventies Raleigh.



http://www.jaysmarine.com/HB_70handbook.html
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
LollyKat
Posts: 3250
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by LollyKat »

I got an instruction leaflet with my new Thorn a few years ago. As it happened it didn't tell me anything I didn't know already as a lifelong cyclist, but it covered the salient points pretty well, I thought.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Any advice please

Post by 531colin »

MikeF wrote:..........But on the other hand many things are supplied as kits with assembly instructions. The last kit I assembled was a wooden plant container MrsF bought. (She helped but didn't feel entirely confident or able to do it herself). The instructions were very good. :)


So, even with "very good" instructions, somebody who might fit the description for an "average adult" wasn't "entirely" confident to tackle the assembly of a plant container.
Just a quick question or two, if I may..........how many moving parts does this plant container have?.........does faulty self-assembly expose the end user to an increased risk of road traffic accident?

(Sorry, Mike, nothing personal.....but you can't really compare a bicycle with a plant trough.....if anybody doubts the difficulty of writing instructions on the lines of "everything you will need to know about bicycles", just look at some of the repeating topics on here......)
landsurfer
Posts: 5327
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by landsurfer »

I write instructions / procedures for the assembly and installation of safety critical components on passenger carrying rail vehicles.
To UK and EU Railway Group Standards.
The fitters, technicians, Engineers following these documents are of the highest calibre. Minimum of NVQ 3 status. A minimum.
I write the instructions / procedures assuming the reader is an idiot that has never seen a rail vehicle.
Anyone walking in off the street with enough intel to get out of bed without injuring themselves can follow the document and produce a safe result.
BUT ... it costs a lot of money to produce these docs so the instructions that accompany bikes in boxes are often pretty useless.
The Bottom Line ..... if you cannot build a bike from component parts safely and reliably ... do not buy a kit of parts in a box !
However, I am available to assemble your "bike in a box", throughout the UK, for £65 / hr and travel at cost. 12 month warranty available.
You can watch and assist .. At no extra cost !
:)
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
Ivor Tingting
Posts: 856
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by Ivor Tingting »

OP hasn't been back. It's over 2 weeks. Why would some one buy a bike unassembled who knew little about building a bike, then come on a forum to ask about instructions? Seems bizarre.
Last edited by Graham on 16 Nov 2017, 8:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: T word removed
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.
User avatar
SimonCelsa
Posts: 1232
Joined: 6 Apr 2011, 10:19pm

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by SimonCelsa »

OP probably scared away by the several posts implying stupidity on his/her part.

I remember the fairly comprehensive Raleigh manual as linked to earlier and would think a similar set of guidelines included with a newly purchased bike is not asking too much?

All the best, Simon
Last edited by Graham on 16 Nov 2017, 8:57am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: T word removed
MikeF
Posts: 4339
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Any advice please

Post by MikeF »

531colin wrote:
MikeF wrote:..........But on the other hand many things are supplied as kits with assembly instructions. The last kit I assembled was a wooden plant container MrsF bought. (She helped but didn't feel entirely confident or able to do it herself). The instructions were very good. :)


So, even with "very good" instructions, somebody who might fit the description for an "average adult" wasn't "entirely" confident to tackle the assembly of a plant container.
Just a quick question or two, if I may..........how many moving parts does this plant container have?.........does faulty self-assembly expose the end user to an increased risk of road traffic accident?

(Sorry, Mike, nothing personal.....but you can't really compare a bicycle with a plant trough.....if anybody doubts the difficulty of writing instructions on the lines of "everything you will need to know about bicycles", just look at some of the repeating topics on here......)
Yes, I agree with you Colin that I wouldn't expect a detailed manual. The OP wanted "..retailers responsibility to ensure a manual is provided with a bicycle that is delivered to my home address." What OP means by a manual I don't know. However if the bike is complete except for attachment of pedals and positioning of handlebars (as they are normally packaged IIRC) I think I would expect simple instructions how to assemble those, and maybe a "reminder" to check brakes work, handlebars straight etc. I wouldn't expect it to have a PDI that covers the finer points of adjustment because a bicycle shop ought to do that and that's why bikes maybe more expensive in shops. That's only my view, and I haven't any idea what is required by law.

However cars are supplied with a driver's manual, although it doesn't compare with a workshop manual. Household appliances are supplied with a user manual, that can be extremely basic. Presumably "user manuals" are supplied with new bikes?

The OP added "delivered to my home address.", as though he wouldn't have expected a manual from a bike shop? This almost implies OP wanted detailed workshop manual.

The OP hasn't replied so some points of the question will remain unanswered.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by pete75 »

SimonCelsa wrote:OP probably scared away by the several posts implying stupidity on his/her part.

I remember the fairly comprehensive Raleigh manual as linked to earlier and would think a similar set of guidelines included with a newly purchased bike is not asking too much?

MikeF wrote:
The OP added "delivered to my home address.", as though he wouldn't have expected a manual from a bike shop? This almost implies OP wanted detailed workshop manual.


All the best, Simon


Some are more comprehensive eg ICE trike manual - contains complete and detailed instructions for assembling a disassembled machine supplied via mail order even down to torque setting for almost all fastenings and parts including pedals. HP Velotechnic supply a similar level of documentation. Comprehensive documentation is possible given a willingness on the part of the manufacturer to supply it - or at least enable web downloads.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http ... wnload?p=1

ftp://ftp.hpvelotechnik.com/anleitungen ... kes_en.pdf
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
MikeF
Posts: 4339
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: retailer responsibility to provide instructions?

Post by MikeF »

That manual is quite comprehensive!
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
Post Reply