What premium to support LBS?

[simonhill]

..........and more posts on here asking such basic questions as: I'm new, what bike do I need; should my boxed bike have assembly instructions; or which way round do the forks go?

Good job our advice is free otherwise those internet purchases would become a lot more expensive.

[pete75]

"I suppose OAP's struggle to adjust to the modern world"

Just because some of us choose not to does not mean that it is a struggle. Always a mix of amusement and annoyance when assistants offer to help this poor old chap use the self-service or the automated banking machines. I say "I won't use those...." and respond to the "it's easy I'll show you how" with "do you not understand English - I said WON'T not CAN'T. Why are you so keen to destroy yet more jobs - yours included?"

Ah but isn't the reason you won't use them because you can't? With a bit of help you might overcome your technophobia and change your views unless such technology is completely beyond your abilities.

[Cyril Haearn]

I'm sure some Christians were trying to limit cycling back in the 1880's, something about it interfering with Sunday worship

Once went into a caving club cottage in S Wales and they had a C19 Methodist poster showing the paths of righteousness and of sin. On the sinful path were the usual temptations: Drink, Gambling, etc, and right before the Gates of Hell was "Trains on Sundays"

Above Penmaenmawr there is a stone circle
It is a group of women who wanted to sort their corn using the wind
The wind came up on the Sabbath and they ignored warnings and were turned to stone

[mjr]

It seems that some will pay a premium but most won't

And still the assumption that there's a premium continues. It's not so much "won't" for me, but "don't have to". The flashy internet prices on a few loss-leaders mask rampant marking up, false stock levels, opaque delivery charges, even less clear returns charges even for defects and so on.

[pete75]

It seems that some will pay a premium but most won't

And still the assumption that there's a premium continues. It's not so much "won't" for me, but "don't have to". The flashy internet prices on a few loss-leaders mask rampant marking up, false stock levels, opaque delivery charges, even less clear returns charges even for defects and so on.

You must have found some very obscure suppliers then. Have never come across any of those issues and I've bought a lot of stuff online.

[PH]

It seems that some will pay a premium but most won't

And still the assumption that there's a premium continues. It's not so much "won't" for me, but "don't have to". The flashy internet prices on a few loss-leaders mask rampant marking up, false stock levels, opaque delivery charges, even less clear returns charges even for defects and so on.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I rarely find anything in the high street that I can't get cheaper online, when you consider the costs involved it isn't surprising, it isn't an assumption it's the reality. Weather you consider it a premium or paying for added value depends on what you're looking for, but the the service from internet suppliers I've used hasn't included any of the drawbacks you list. Just where have you been shopping?

[JohnW]

Not any more, since we've lost several of my LBS' (One died, one retired, the other vanished).

Probably 'vanished' because on-line outfits had taken his trade and his living away.

[JohnW]

"I suppose OAP's struggle to adjust to the modern world"

Just because some of us choose not to does not mean that it is a struggle. Always a mix of amusement and annoyance when assistants offer to help this poor old chap use the self-service or the automated banking machines. I say "I won't use those...." and respond to the "it's easy I'll show you how" with "do you not understand English - I said WON'T not CAN'T. Why are you so keen to destroy yet more jobs - yours included?"

...........reminds me of a line in one of 'The Who's' songs - "I hope I die before I get old".............the young, flashy assistant will know more, and know more about 'why' when he's older.

[Cyril Haearn]

"I suppose OAP's struggle to adjust to the modern world"

Just because some of us choose not to does not mean that it is a struggle. Always a mix of amusement and annoyance when assistants offer to help this poor old chap use the self-service or the automated banking machines. I say "I won't use those...." and respond to the "it's easy I'll show you how" with "do you not understand English - I said WON'T not CAN'T. Why are you so keen to destroy yet more jobs - yours included?"

...........reminds me of a line in one of 'The Who's' songs - "I hope I die before I get old".............the young, flashy assistant will know more, and know more about 'why' when he's older.

The Who?
*You think we look pretty good together
You think my shoes [saddles?] are made of leather*

[Bmblbzzz]

I wonder if there might be something about the way that cycling tends to be a sport or a hobby in the UK. Deciding not to paay a premium does rather depend on knowing what you need to buy online, knowing how to fit it and being willing to spare the time. I'm guessing this is more true of keen UK cyclists than those who cycle in places where utility cycling is more prevalent.

Or the opposite; cycling as a utility means you get bikes and parts from Tesco, next to the car tyres (literally).

[JohnW]

................I rarely find anything in the high street that I can't get cheaper online...............

Help? Advice? Human contact? Humour? Friendly conversation? Interest in you? There in emergency?

You get all that from the likes of Spa, SJS, Geoffrey Butler et al, but they're not on-line retailers as such - they're decent bike shops that also sell on-line. They have humans that you can talk to and ask advice from - and probably cyclists themselves who not only know what they're talking about, but from experience also know what you're saying.

You can't even talk to a human on the 'phone at Wiggle.

If Wiggle et al shut down, you'd not notice - but we all notice if an LBS shuts down.

[mjr]

It seems that some will pay a premium but most won't

And still the assumption that there's a premium continues. It's not so much "won't" for me, but "don't have to". The flashy internet prices on a few loss-leaders mask rampant marking up, false stock levels, opaque delivery charges, even less clear returns charges even for defects and so on.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I rarely find anything in the high street that I can't get cheaper online, when you consider the costs involved it isn't surprising, it isn't an assumption it's the reality. Weather you consider it a premium or paying for added value depends on what you're looking for, but the the service from internet suppliers I've used hasn't included any of the drawbacks you list. Just where have you been shopping?

Mostly West Norfolk and Cambridge lately, as I think I mentioned a while ago - maybe atypical in actually being a competitive real-world market. Rarely in the actual High Streets, as I think the last bike parts shop on Lynn's closed a couple of years ago, but still mostly in the town centres. I think one of the shops in Downham might be on its High Street but I get a bit confused about what's High Street and which street shops take their address from (Bridge Street is probably the main street these days). I don't remember whether Cambridge has a High Street.

I'd suggest trying Tredz, Athlete Shop or Y Frame if you'd like to experience some of those drawbacks.

[pete75]

If Wiggle et al shut down, you'd not notice - but we all notice if an LBS shuts down.

Tens of thousands of people would notice. The bike shop nearest me shut down and I didn't know until someone mentioned it about two years later.

[PH]

................I rarely find anything in the high street that I can't get cheaper online...............

Help? Advice? Human contact? Humour? Friendly conversation? Interest in you? There in emergency?

I'm more likely to get all that in the company of cyclists, on a ride or online, than I am from anyone with a commercial interest in offering particular "advice"

You get all that from the likes of Spa, SJS, Geoffrey Butler et al, but they're not on-line retailers as such - they're decent bike shops that also sell on-line. They have humans that you can talk to and ask advice from - and probably cyclists themselves who not only know what they're talking about, but from experience also know what you're saying.

A very selective definition of what an online retailer is - I don't know much about GB, but the other two wouldn't be the businesses they are if they relied on the physical shop.

If Wiggle et al shut down, you'd not notice - but we all notice if an LBS shuts down.

Apparently not

[PH]

I'd suggest trying Tredz, Athlete Shop or Y Frame if you'd like to experience some of those drawbacks.

Why would I like to experience those drawbacks? No one is saying all retailers are good, on line or physical, things do go wrong, some businesses are better at dealing with it than others.

Retailers that I remember using online in the last couple of years
SJS - no problems
Spa - Ordered jacket, not in stock and didn't let me know till chased, bought online from distributor instead.
Charlie the Bikemonger - no problems
High on Bikes - no problems
Hub Jub - no problems
Hewitt - no problems
Cycle republic - no problems
Chain reaction - no problems and used their free returns when I didn't like what I ordered
Tredz - parcel went missing, dealt with promptly
Bike 24 - no problems
Rose - no problems
Bikester - no problems
Westbrook - no problems
Acycles - slow to process a refund
Practical Cycles - no problems

Previous LBS experiences
Tyre delaminated after a couple of hundred miles - "Just bad luck mate" Took it up with the manufacturer online and got replacement.
Stitching undone of winter boots - "We'll have to get the distributor to look at them" took three months to resolve, by which time winter was over!
Ordered a Campag part - when chased up a couple of weeks later told they were waiting to make up an order (Got it online within a couple of days)
Sold V brake levers to go with canti brakes and they didn't want to take them back because they'd been fitted
Told square taper BB no longer made!!

In both cases the transactions that haven't gone perfectly are a very small percentage, my experience when it did happen the online suppliers dealt with it better than the shops.