What premium to support LBS?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
gloomyandy
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by gloomyandy »

francovendee wrote:
I don't think tools come any more simple than a bottom bracket removal tool. After all it's just a fancy socket. To be any use you off course need crank puller. Even after the cost of these it's still cheaper than using a bike shop.


I can't remember the last time I used a crank puller, I may have a very rusty one in the shed somewhere, but I've not needed to use one on any of my bikes for a long time! I do however have a bottom bracket tool for the BBs that have threads and a press for those that don't!
Cyril Haearn
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

gloomyandy wrote:
francovendee wrote:
I don't think tools come any more simple than a bottom bracket removal tool. After all it's just a fancy socket. To be any use you off course need crank puller. Even after the cost of these it's still cheaper than using a bike shop.


I can't remember the last time I used a crank puller, I may have a very rusty one in the shed somewhere, but I've not needed to use one on any of my bikes for a long time! I do however have a bottom bracket tool for the BBs that have threads and a press for those that don't!


Did the cranks come off without needing a tool?
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PH
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by PH »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
gloomyandy wrote:
francovendee wrote:
I don't think tools come any more simple than a bottom bracket removal tool. After all it's just a fancy socket. To be any use you off course need crank puller. Even after the cost of these it's still cheaper than using a bike shop.


I can't remember the last time I used a crank puller, I may have a very rusty one in the shed somewhere, but I've not needed to use one on any of my bikes for a long time! I do however have a bottom bracket tool for the BBs that have threads and a press for those that don't!


Did the cranks come off without needing a tool?

Some do
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-he ... extracting
gloomyandy
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by gloomyandy »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Did the cranks come off without needing a tool?


Indeed they do. All of the cranks I have use some form of self extracting crank system. It is usually just a case of undoing a single hex bolt and that then extracts the crank. My cranks are all SRAM or FSA and all come with this type of system.
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foxyrider
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by foxyrider »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Did the cranks come off without needing a tool?


Most modern cranksets don't need pullers to remove them. Out of my current stable of 6 bikes only two need a puller, the third with old school cotterless chainset has self extracting bolts fitted. The others use variants of integrated axles big hex bolt to hold it together but a circlip type affair to keep it all in place - most they need is a tap with a mallet. If I didn't have the tools I would go to a shop to do this or any other job I'm not equipped for.

I have all the tools to do the job whichever bike it is, they were none of them expensive and so having them instead of relying on getting to the LBS is no hardship. I've worked in a larger LBS, the bread and butter punters are usually looking at less technical repairs, punctures, new tyres, chains etc. Yes all jobs a reasonably competent individual could do themselves. They will happily pay for these jobs but when it comes to real mechanicing they are invariably loath to spend the cash - shop mechanics spend a lot of time fixing owners failed bodged repairs - cross threaded pedals, crushed bearings etc. Yep a little knowledge can be dangerous!
Convention? what's that then?
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pete75
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by pete75 »

foxyrider wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Did the cranks come off without needing a tool?


Most modern cranksets don't need pullers to remove them. Out of my current stable of 6 bikes only two need a puller, the third with old school cotterless chainset has self extracting bolts fitted. The others use variants of integrated axles big hex bolt to hold it together but a circlip type affair to keep it all in place - most they need is a tap with a mallet. If I didn't have the tools I would go to a shop to do this or any other job I'm not equipped for.


It's old fashioned cranksets that don't need pullers because they're fixed to the BB spindle with cotter pins.
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gbnz
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by gbnz »

pete75 wrote:

It's old fashioned cranksets that don't need pullers because they're fixed to the BB spindle with cotter pins.[/quote]

So, do I need crank pullers to remove the cranks from the modern bikes I've been removing them from for years without an issue :roll: (It's hard to resist; or are crank pullers primarily there to remove cranks from websites and so on?)
Last edited by gbnz on 1 Dec 2017, 8:32am, edited 1 time in total.
Stevek76
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Stevek76 »

No you need crank pullers for what I guess are middle fashioned/fangled bikes :lol:

And you need an utterly daft toolset for campag powertorques...
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atoz
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by atoz »

I have a reasonable selection of tools that do most bike repair jobs, so I don't tend to visit the LBS for these. I get my wheels rebuilt at the shop- he builds superb wheels. I could do it myself but I would need time to do it, which I don't have. I would buy my tyres from him if he had what I wanted, but I don't want Schwalbe, I prefer Vittoria- you can't get Rubinos or the Randonneur tyres locally, so it's online. Clothing locally tends to be Altura and not a lot else- and I don't want to do the ninja cyclist thing and just wear black, or look like a Sky clone.
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Gattonero
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Gattonero »

AndyA wrote:The Brompton BB is made by FAG and uses their 6 dog tool. Campagnolo also used this style, possibly even made by FAG, in the late 20th century. The FAG BB has cups made of plastic, Campagnolo alu or steel. Most home mechanics won't have one, any LBS worth a visit would. Image
It's really easy to damage the cups, especially if you try to remove them with stilsons or something.

The above knowledge you would get from me if you walked into the bike shop I work in, and if there wasn't a queue, you could probably get your BB removed while you wait. Also available there is the knowledge to remove said BB if the cups are ruined...


to be fair, the recalled FAG bb units have the fittings for both 6-point FAG/Campag type and 20-point Shimano type
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Paul Smith SRCC
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Paul Smith SRCC »

Supermarkets grew at the expense of local greengrocers and butchers to name just two casualties of what were traditional local stores. Arguably a similar trend is occurring with local bike shops; quite a few are struggling to compete with the large specialist online retailers.

It's understandable that price is a factor and results in many purchasing online. In our defence as a retailer it is frustrating that we can often buy products from online retailers cheaper than from the official distributor; a large topic in itself but none the less one reason why stores do not have the product ranges they once stocked. The most affected stores are those that focus on mid to high end products, less so the those that focus on entry level products. A customer buying a £200.00 hybrid is less likely to be seduced by a saving online, often they would much rather have good advice with their product choice, the chosen bike built and set up for them and probably a first free service.

Sadly I have noticed stores closing, most recently M Steel, Ilkey Cycles and Velo House to name just three, all were quality stores that struggled to the extent they closed, although note I am not privy to what was personal to each store. Of course a business needs to compete to survive and a bike store is no different. Trying to take on the internet giants with what they do best is difficult; supplying products with little or no margin and often at a loss is not sustainable. In some ways this is nothing new, before the internet it for was for many years 'mail order' that a LBS had to compete with, take the internet out of the equation and their business was model similar, as was their customer base. A store will often view a knowledgeable club rider who is capable of maintaining their own bike more as a friend than a revenue stream; but they may need the odd thing now and then, or a bike for their kids, plus often they recommend someone who may need the service that a quality bike shop can offer.

So it is not all doom and gloom, many stores have evolved their business model to offer what the internet struggles with. Fortunately there are still enough customers that need advice about their potential product choice and often covet a shopping experience that they simply can't get online; this is where personable, experienced quality staff add value to any store. Many customers are new to cycling and what a store offers should cater for that customer, as such I have seen a massive growth in the demand for 'bike fitting' and 'bike servicing', both an asset to any store who can offer a quality service for each. Many customers choose a bike fit prior to a purchase, as listed bike sizes often can and does confuse. I have seen more than a few buy a bargain online only to discover they bought the wrong product, or in the wrong size, or both! To correct this error often costing far more than the initial saving. Back to the title of this thread, many customers don't look at it as what "premium to support LBS", they look at it as an investment to help them chose the correct bike in the correct size to maximise their enjoyment of cycling and avoid potential costly mistakes.

Yes times change and a store must change with it, implement those changes correctly and it maybe possible to not only survive, but to thrive; although the latter maybe down to the individuals perception as to what thriving actually equates to of course. I can say this much, I have worked in the cycle trade for over 30 years and the majority of that experience has been in retail, I would never say the trade has been easy as there has always been challenges and competition, peaks and troughs; yet I have never worked in a store where it has gone backwards while I was there as each had evolved to meet the challenges of the moment.

I'm as passionate about the cycle industry as I am about cycling, cyclists' and everything that goes with it. For me personally it would be such a shame if we lost our quality local bike shops; the good ones can and do compete and long may they continue to do so.
Last edited by Paul Smith SRCC on 12 Dec 2017, 11:33am, edited 2 times in total.
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mnichols
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by mnichols »

[quote="Paul Smith SRCC"][/quote]

Thanks, that's a very well thought out, positive and articulate response from someone seeing it from the other side of the counter

Also, really like your webpage, and was slightly relieved to find out that SRCC probably stands for Surrey Road Cycling Club, and not the Syrian Revolutionary Command Council
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hondated
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by hondated »

foxyrider wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Did the cranks come off without needing a tool?


Most modern cranksets don't need pullers to remove them. Out of my current stable of 6 bikes only two need a puller, the third with old school cotterless chainset has self extracting bolts fitted. The others use variants of integrated axles big hex bolt to hold it together but a circlip type affair to keep it all in place - most they need is a tap with a mallet. If I didn't have the tools I would go to a shop to do this or any other job I'm not equipped for.

I have all the tools to do the job whichever bike it is, they were none of them expensive and so having them instead of relying on getting to the LBS is no hardship. I've worked in a larger LBS, the bread and butter punters are usually looking at less technical repairs, punctures, new tyres, chains etc. Yes all jobs a reasonably competent individual could do themselves. They will happily pay for these jobs but when it comes to real mechanicing they are invariably loath to spend the cash - shop mechanics spend a lot of time fixing owners failed bodged repairs - cross threaded pedals, crushed bearings etc. Yep a little knowledge can be dangerous!

A little knowledge ... your so right. When i brought one of my bikes second hand the seller told me that I could have the Look pedals fitted as he had new ones for his new bike.
I thought how nice of him !. That is until I went to change them when it all became clearer. He'd obviously been trying to remove the left handed thread side wrongly as it was seized on and took a great deal of persuasion to remove it.
Definitely a lack of knowledge.
Jdsk
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Jdsk »

NB date.

signal-2021-07-22-103350.jpeg

Spotted in London outside bike shop. Small mark-up.

Anyone seen anything similar before?

Jonathan
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by rjb »

Jdsk wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 10:42am NB date.


signal-2021-07-22-103350.jpeg

Anyone seen anything similar before?

Jonathan
only inside the Gentlemen's toilets. :oops:
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