What premium to support LBS?

[simonhill]

I use my LBS a lot. They give me a standard 10% off list price, so they often compete with internet. This was the old CTC discount that a number of retailers used to give.

There are some items I buy online, eg my tyres and some stuff I buy from Aldi, eg my gloves, but I generally buy most stuff from my LBS. Admittedly they have built my last two bikes and do most of my servicing and repairs so the parts are usually just part of the job.

I would be lost without my LBS. They will always help out if I need anything done urgently before going away and they supply the cardboard bike boxes I regularly use.

They seem to have a mixed clientele including many newcomers and mums and kids. Without the shop, I wonder where they would go?

Maybe I'm lucky and can afford to spend a few quid extra to help keep a bike shop in my town and avoid it from becoming another Costalot coffee house.

[Cyril Haearn]

I use my LBS a lot. They give me a standard 10% off list price, so they often compete with internet. This was the old CTC discount that a number of retailers used to give.

There are some items I buy online, eg my tyres and some stuff I buy from Aldi, eg my gloves, but I generally buy most stuff from my LBS. Admittedly they have built my last two bikes and do most of my servicing and repairs so the parts are usually just part of the job.

I would be lost without my LBS. They will always help out if I need anything done urgently before going away and they supply the cardboard bike boxes I regularly use.

They seem to have a mixed clientele including many newcomers and mums and kids. Without the shop, I wonder where they would go?

Maybe I'm lucky and can afford to spend a few quid extra to help keep a bike shop in my town and avoid it from becoming
another Costalot coffee house.

Are you willing to identify the shop?

[gbnz]

None.

I'd agree, none.

I've dropped a bike in with a jammed bottom bracket twice over the past 9 years, simply because I lack a work bench/vice (NB. Forgot I'd glued, used epoxy resin to fit a BB to a worn out frame on one of those occasions; LBS wasn't happy )

I bought something at a LBS back in 2002-2003, I'd hazard a guess that I may have bought an emergency item somewhere on tour in France/Italy/New Zealand/UK since then, though can't remember anything offhand

[De Sisti]

Can't build wheels or install/remove headset; I'll use a local bike shop (LBS) for those jobs. Other tasks I can do myself.
As for buying stuff; if I want it 'now' I'll use the LBS.

[mnichols]

I use my LBS a lot. They give me a standard 10% off list price, so they often compete with internet. This was the old CTC discount that a number of retailers used to give.

There are some items I buy online, eg my tyres and some stuff I buy from Aldi, eg my gloves, but I generally buy most stuff from my LBS. Admittedly they have built my last two bikes and do most of my servicing and repairs so the parts are usually just part of the job.

I would be lost without my LBS. They will always help out if I need anything done urgently before going away and they supply the cardboard bike boxes I regularly use.

They seem to have a mixed clientele including many newcomers and mums and kids. Without the shop, I wonder where they would go?

Maybe I'm lucky and can afford to spend a few quid extra to help keep a bike shop in my town and avoid it from becoming another Costalot coffee house.

My attitude is closest to yours, but the premium seems to be rising. I like to use my LBS and I definitely need it for jobs that I can't do or I don't have the tools. I also use it for cardboard boxes for travelling. I also get 10% off list, but as an example the mudguards I am looking at buying are typically sold with a 60% to 70% off RRP online making them around £15 more expensive in the LBS. Some wheels that I bought last year were more than £100 more expensive. So when is the premium too high?

[[XAP]Bob]

I don't use the lbs for much. There is a local(ish) shop I use for wheelbuilding/truing...
If I need assistance then I have a local mobile mechanic I can call on.

But I couldn't find mirror mounts for the utility room mirror (removed for decorating) at 9pm. So I popped on an online merchant, ordered whilst I was thinking about it, it's still waiting to be put up of course
That's the key for me - I don't need to take time out to go to a shop and find that they don't have something - I can just order it online without question.
I ordered a ceiling projector mount last week, when it arrived I realised that it was the wrong fitting. Return was organised instantly and the new one arrived the next day - I just need to drop the old one at the post office just round the corner... before February!??!

[Mick F]

None.

Me too, though I had a gift voucher for Halfords a while back.

[mjr]

I buy parts from Anglia Motor Cycles or Richardsons in King's Lynn when possible. I've bought a couple of things from M-Bikes and AT Johnson in Downham Market but they're a few miles further away and I don't visit that town as often. There are several other shops in the borough (including in relatively small places like Heacham and the 7-day opening one in South Creake which saved a group ride a few weeks ago) including at least another four doing repairs, although I wouldn't visit two any more after bad past work. Some of the stranger stuff or things I know or suspect strongly they don't stock (ball rings, push rods and axles for hub gears, to give a few recent examples - replacement pannier clips was another), then I often order online, but I usually check local shops first.

Overall I think I don't pay much of a premium - sometimes they're dearer, sometimes they're cheaper and sometimes by a surprising amount given all the online assumptions that you pay a premium at local shops - I seem to recall both a 3-speed gear cable and a centre stand were cheaper in local shops than online. This may be because we seem to have a competitive bike shop market, plus there's the car spares places stocking some bits if you want longer opening hours - heck, even the Watlington Post Office sells puncture repair kits! The great benefit is that I don't have to deal with courier firms or the risk of knock-off parts (I've had a couple) from some of the cheaper online sellers.

So I'd suggest people check out their local shops rather than just assuming stuff is necessarily cheaper, easier or better online.

[PH]

Maybe I'm lucky and can afford to spend a few quid extra to help keep a bike shop in my town and avoid it from becoming another Costalot coffee house.

I'd be very surprised if there were enough like you to make it viable in the long term, a business model that relies on selling something that can be obtained cheaper elsewhere with a lot more choice, seems doomed to me. Those businesses that I see doing well are offering something different. When I started cycling it was a clear choice, online for a better price, high street for better service, online retailers have upped the game and when it comes to retail are often able to better the high street for service.
There is also a new element to retail, where the shop is a storefront as much as an outlet. Where you can look at and find out about the product, but whether you buy there or online isn't for them the priority. First of these I noticed were the Apple stores, then the Secialized concept stores, these don't mind where you buy as long as it's their product. This seems to be trickling down to smaller businesses, Alpkit are opening stores, but would probably rather handle the transaction from their warehouse. It's possibly contributed to the decline in bike shops when people have used them for the service, like test riding a bike, or trying on some shoes, then buying cheaper from elsewhere, somewhere without the cost of providing that service. It's something I'd never do, but you see it advocated all the time. Maybe a future model will be for distributors to take this into consideration when pricing for physical outlets.
Retail is changing, I doubt any of us could afford the premium that would stop it, though it might be possible to slow it a little.

[simonhill]

I take your point and agree that me spending my money there isn't a good model to base a whole business on. What I meant is that I don't mind spending a little extra because I know that when I need them, they'll be there. I s'pose you could say a bit like an insurance policy.

I'd rather think about my point that they serviced a mixed clientele. Including the mum with a flat on her push chair, where would she go without an LBS, Quickfit?

I sorta get the feeling that there are a lot of people only too happy to eschew their LBS and are quite proud of it. They have a number of reasons, mainly financial, but sometimes a long off remembered bit of bad service. Fair enough, everyone to their own. My concern is with the long term when there are no local service options and the effect this is likely to have on people less skilled and those taking up cycling.

[PH]

I'd rather think about my point that they serviced a mixed clientele. Including the mum with a flat on her push chair, where would she go without an LBS, Quickfit?

I can only speak for those businesses that I know locally to me, but there are several that are not relying on mainstream retail to survive. One that has a long history specialising in servicing, deliberately set up opposite the factory gates of the areas largest employer. There's the newer business mentioned above that has taken that to another level. And a couple that have recently started up refurbishing and servicing secondhand bikes.
I'm not saying all bike shops will close, but those that are still relying on the business model they were using a decade ago will struggle.
But this for your specific example - I just put "repair pushchair puncture" into google and got 250,000 results. It's most likely that the mother doesn't need anyone.

[Ben@Forest]

I use a LBS for everything but basic servicing and repairs and occasionally buy clothing/shoes there. I think that online I don't spend less money, I am just able to afford a higher quality top or shoe. But is it a typical LBS? It offers frame-building - the steel and aluminium are in-house but don't think so on carbon; renovations (back to the original paint scheme/transfers if do-able), bike fits, 0% finance and has a big website - I'm not sure this is normal for a LBS? That shop takes 80% of my custom but I occasionally use another two when it's convenient to do so, one is good for dropping the bike off, taking a train and getting it back the same day, but I don't regularly use a train for work.

However people have different conception as to what's good value - note how people on this forum flag up that cheap cycling clothing is available at Aldi or Lidl - most of what I've seen (including seeing on others who've bought it) is very poor and has no decent lifespan, but perhaps some people like sweating more than necessary and cheap is a big pull!

[gloomyandy]

For me it depends on what they have to offer. In general I like doing most of the work on my bikes myself and these days can do most jobs, including building bikes from the frame up. However sometimes a shop can offer that extra something...

A couple of years ago was looking for a new touring bike. I was interested in an older model genesis frame or complete bike. I emailed all of the Genesis stockists in my area (about 15 shops in all). In fairness they all got back to me pretty quickly all saying they did not have what I wanted. However one (Paul Milne Cycles) asked me what it was I was after and offered to try an put something together that would meet my requirements. I had a fairly long email conversation with them and put together a fairly unusual build (Croix de Fer frame, plus a mix of SRAM road and mountain parts), which they came back with a very competitive price on. I think they used a complete bike as a basis and swapped in the special parts I wanted. I got the impression they enjoyed putting together something different. Anyway as a result I purchased the bike from them and have been very pleased with it, I've sent a few others their way since. Basically they offered a bit more than a standard service and I liked that.

I've had a similar experience from another local shop, Woodrups in Leeds, I purchased a frame and some other parts via them and they have always been keen to help out.

Finally the other "shop" I use regularly is Spa Cycles I'm lucky that they are not that far away so I can drive out there for stuff. I guess they don't need an introduction, but as well as stocking a great range of stuff not that easy to find in your average LBS, they have also always been happy to offer advice and to provide the little extras like nuts and bolts etc, that you sometimes need.

[Stevek76]

I'd have to admit I've actually no idea what the local bike shop premium even is in my area.

The main issue though is convenience rather than price, like most independent shops in this country their opening times seem to largely coincide with the 'normal' work day.

Cycling is actually reasonably popular around here though so there are more than enough folk who wouldn't know the right end of a spanner to keep them in business.

[old_windbag]

However people have different conception as to what's good value - note how people on this forum flag up that cheap cycling clothing is available at Aldi or Lidl - most of what I've seen (including seeing on others who've bought it) is very poor and has no decent lifespan, but perhaps some people like sweating more than necessary and cheap is a big pull!

As someone who does think Aldi/lidl make a positive contribution to cycle clothing I think it's scales of economy as much as "cheap!". I have in the past purchased items that looking back provided me with no better, sometimes even less, fit or function than aldi kit. For me a standout is aldi's winter gloves and track mitts, each roughly £5 a pair. I've spent 7 times that amount for the equivalent product from a brand name and it hasn't lasted the distance nor been any warmer. Admittedly you have to be circumspect as to some items but on the whole they aren't bad. I have a gilet which has been a god send on those cool spring/autumn days where a jacket is overkill. Also to have an off and rip a cheap jacket is to me much less wince producing then when I did it with an expensive vaude that was only a couple of weeks old .

The key thing is that out of someones income they have to subtract all food, heating, insurances, future money for car issues, boiler replacement, house maintenance etc. Whats left governs hobby money and if that means one gore jacket or from budget shop( aldi, lidl, decathlon, planet-x ) 2 jackets, 2 shirts, gloves, mitts, buff..... well then it fits the budget vfm. I'm not lewis hamilton so I have to watch what I spend nowadays as well as having money ready for honestly paying my tax bill. I think if Aldi etc help many more people use bikes and get them commuting or keeping fit at prices that don't turn them off then its a plus, just as with the quality of sub £500 bikes today it makes cycling affordable rather than niche.

I think if LBS's have an online prescence then that is vital to getting more trade and also being able to sell at lower prices, you have to be open to all avenues of selling.