What premium to support LBS?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Gattonero
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Gattonero »

pete75 wrote:
ambodach wrote:I was affected by the Brompton recall on bottom brackets. To get it fitted by a Brompton dealer would take me probably 3 days and nearly a couple of hundred pounds in travel and accomodation cost. Yes I could parcel it up and entrust it to some carrier who cannot deliver items to me even when I am at home. Brompton sent me a new bearing set. The local LBS in Oban fitted it for a very reasonable cost at my convenience. I also bought one or two other bits when I was in the shop. All happy but without an LBS where would we be ?


Personally I'd have just fitted in once I received it.


Do you have all the tools for that?
Also, the LBS would do it for free (asking the money back from the manufacturer), so why bother taking the toolbox out?
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
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Gattonero
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Gattonero »

mnichols wrote:Just curious, given that you can buy (almost) everything online, usually cheaper,have it delivered to your house for free, have a better selection, no quibble (free) returns what premium will you pay to support the local bike shop?

I want the LBS to survive but some cheaper things like tyres and tubes can be up to 100% more expensive, and some bigger items like wheels can be a hundred pound or more expensive

Also, given the premium how much business do you put their way?


I don't see a "premium" in supporting local shops, being food, electronics or other stuff.
Manufactures and distributors are to blame for making people confused in what the real price of a product is.
Because of this, the real problem I see for local shops, is that they cannot stock all the I want. But in some way, most of them should think ahead and offer a reliable e-commerce side, warehouses out of town and their operators do cost a lot less than opening a high-street shop with highly trained staff.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
pete75
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by pete75 »

Gattonero wrote:
pete75 wrote:
ambodach wrote:I was affected by the Brompton recall on bottom brackets. To get it fitted by a Brompton dealer would take me probably 3 days and nearly a couple of hundred pounds in travel and accomodation cost. Yes I could parcel it up and entrust it to some carrier who cannot deliver items to me even when I am at home. Brompton sent me a new bearing set. The local LBS in Oban fitted it for a very reasonable cost at my convenience. I also bought one or two other bits when I was in the shop. All happy but without an LBS where would we be ?


Personally I'd have just fitted in once I received it.


Do you have all the tools for that?
Also, the LBS would do it for free (asking the money back from the manufacturer), so why bother taking the toolbox out?


To remove and fit a bottom bracket - yes. A BB tool and a crank puller - some of the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have.

I'm guessing what is meant is bottom bracket replacement , a job that takes under 5 minutes unless components badly stuck together with corrosion which they wouldn't be on a newish bike subject to a recall. How long does it take to travel to a bike shop? My nearest are in Spalding, Grantham, Sleaford and Stamford all around 14 miles away.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
PH
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by PH »

ambodach wrote:I was affected by the Brompton recall on bottom brackets. To get it fitted by a Brompton dealer would take me probably 3 days and nearly a couple of hundred pounds in travel and accomodation cost. Yes I could parcel it up and entrust it to some carrier who cannot deliver items to me even when I am at home. Brompton sent me a new bearing set. The local LBS in Oban fitted it for a very reasonable cost at my convenience. I also bought one or two other bits when I was in the shop. All happy but without an LBS where would we be ?

You make an assumption that it'd be a LBS or nothing, if that were the case the argument for supporting them would be more persuasive. I don't know about Oban, but experience in the areas I do know is that businesses other than the traditional bike shop have opened to cater for the needs of cyclists without the reliance on retail and it's associated costs.
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by Vorpal »

pete75 wrote:To remove and fit a bottom bracket - yes. A BB tool and a crank puller - some of the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have.

I don't think I would describe a BB tool as one of 'the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have'. While I am sure that many people who work on their own bikes have them, I suspect that a significant number do not.

I have a crank puller (two, in fact), and wide variety of other tools, including some specialist ones, but I don't have any bottom bracket tools. The only BB I've done in the last ~20 years is an old one with loose bearings, for which I used a pin spanner.

My neighbor who cycles quite a bit, and generally does his own maintenance borrowed one of my crank pullers to change the chain ring on his wife's bike, so it seems he doesn't have one.

It's not helped any by the fact that someone who has more than a couple of bikes likely needs more than one BB tool.
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gbnz
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by gbnz »

cc1085 wrote:Is the online outlet paying the same level of tax as the LBS or are they shifting profits to an offshore tax haven or moving their finances through channels that are designed to eliminate their contribution to your NHS, education,police, roads and all other public services that everyone depends on? Thats the first thing I would ask.


I don't know, but I do know that the only LBS I've used in recent years prefers payments in cash. Apparently it allows little old men in LBS's to reduce their tax bill, as they can pretend their revenue is lower than that declared :shock: Who would have thought it :shock:.

I have to say I've never been offered discounts for paying in cash yet when buying online, perhaps it's something I should look into?
thirdcrank
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by thirdcrank »

I only mention this because AFAIK, Shimano specialised in fishing tackle before they diversified into bike stuff.

One of my neighbours is a fly fisherman and when he was out at lunchtime, I took in a rod-shaped package for him. As our top-rate postman remarked, it wouldn't go in the letterbox easily. :lol: The sender was a firm in Bulgaria.

When the addressee came home shortly afterwards he commented that it was by far the cheapest place for what he wanted and he had only ordered it online a couple of days ago.
pete75
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by pete75 »

Vorpal wrote:
pete75 wrote:To remove and fit a bottom bracket - yes. A BB tool and a crank puller - some of the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have.

I don't think I would describe a BB tool as one of 'the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have'. While I am sure that many people who work on their own bikes have them, I suspect that a significant number do not.

I have a crank puller (two, in fact), and wide variety of other tools, including some specialist ones, but I don't have any bottom bracket tools. The only BB I've done in the last ~20 years is an old one with loose bearings, for which I used a pin spanner.

My neighbor who cycles quite a bit, and generally does his own maintenance borrowed one of my crank pullers to change the chain ring on his wife's bike, so it seems he doesn't have one.

It's not helped any by the fact that someone who has more than a couple of bikes likely needs more than one BB tool.


Well if you've never had to change a BB in the last 20 years you've been lucky.

Your neighbour probably does very limited work if he doesn't even have a crank puller.

I'd guess the most common "special"cycle tools people here will have is a chain splitter, crank puller, cassette lock ring tool and/or freewheel remover , a chain whip and a BB tool. Personally I don't see how anyone could do much work other than cleaning, adjusting, and replacing the odd cable without those few tools. If they've got something modern, light and carbon a torque wrench is virtually an essential as well even if only doing stuff like tightening seat clamp bolts or an ahead stem on a carbon steerer

BTW you could have fifty bikes and only need one BB tool. It depends on the type of BB fitted not on the bike it's fitted to.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
thirdcrank
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm bemused by the idea of a bottom bracket tool (singular.)
francovendee
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by francovendee »

pete75 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
pete75 wrote:To remove and fit a bottom bracket - yes. A BB tool and a crank puller - some of the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have.

I don't think I would describe a BB tool as one of 'the most basic tools any cyclist who does work on their own bike will have'. While I am sure that many people who work on their own bikes have them, I suspect that a significant number do not.

I have a crank puller (two, in fact), and wide variety of other tools, including some specialist ones, but I don't have any bottom bracket tools. The only BB I've done in the last ~20 years is an old one with loose bearings, for which I used a pin spanner.

My neighbor who cycles quite a bit, and generally does his own maintenance borrowed one of my crank pullers to change the chain ring on his wife's bike, so it seems he doesn't have one.

It's not helped any by the fact that someone who has more than a couple of bikes likely needs more than one BB tool.


Well if you've never had to change a BB in the last 20 years you've been lucky.

Your neighbour probably does very limited work if he doesn't even have a crank puller.

I'd guess the most common "special"cycle tools people here will have is a chain splitter, crank puller, cassette lock ring tool and/or freewheel remover , a chain whip and a BB tool. Personally I don't see how anyone could do much work other than cleaning, adjusting, and replacing the odd cable without those few tools. If they've got something modern, light and carbon a torque wrench is virtually an essential as well even if only doing stuff like tightening seat clamp bolts or an ahead stem on a carbon steerer

BTW you could have fifty bikes and only need one BB tool. It depends on the type of BB fitted not on the bike it's fitted to.
.
I don't think tools come any more simple than a bottom bracket removal tool. After all it's just a fancy socket. To be any use you off course need crank puller. Even after the cost of these it's still cheaper than using a bike shop.
pete75
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by pete75 »

thirdcrank wrote:I'm bemused by the idea of a bottom bracket tool (singular.)


Really??? I use one of these.

Image
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
thirdcrank
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by thirdcrank »

Really!!! :wink:

Without checking, I've no idea what that fits, but I do know there are plenty of other types of BB. Bearing in mind the number of forum members with several bikes, often accumulated over quite a period, I imagine I'm not alone in having all manner of fittings.
pete75
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by pete75 »

thirdcrank wrote:Really!!! :wink:

Without checking, I've no idea what that fits, but I do know there are plenty of other types of BB. Bearing in mind the number of forum members with several bikes, often accumulated over quite a period, I imagine I'm not alone in having all manner of fittings.


If you'd ever removed a Shimano square taper BB you'd recognise it straight away. As well as Shimano it will also fit the vast majority of non Campag square taper bottom brackets made by the many other manufacturers who use Shimano sizes and fitting types as a de facto standard. Many Campag square taper BBS don't even need a special BB tool as they can be removed with the cassette lock ring tool. External BBs don't need a special tool Stilsons will shift them.
Anyhow I thought you meant that more than one tool was needed to remove a particular BB. I suppose that is true of some loose ball versions but with the bike in question being a Brompton I doubt it has one of those.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
AndyA
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by AndyA »

The Brompton BB is made by FAG and uses their 6 dog tool. Campagnolo also used this style, possibly even made by FAG, in the late 20th century. The FAG BB has cups made of plastic, Campagnolo alu or steel. Most home mechanics won't have one, any LBS worth a visit would. Image
It's really easy to damage the cups, especially if you try to remove them with stilsons or something.

The above knowledge you would get from me if you walked into the bike shop I work in, and if there wasn't a queue, you could probably get your BB removed while you wait. Also available there is the knowledge to remove said BB if the cups are ruined...
pete75
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Re: What premium to support LBS?

Post by pete75 »

AndyA wrote:The Brompton BB is made by FAG and uses their 6 dog tool. Campagnolo also used this style, possibly even made by FAG, in the late 20th century. The FAG BB has cups made of plastic, Campagnolo alu or steel. Most home mechanics won't have one, any LBS worth a visit would. Image
It's really easy to damage the cups, especially if you try to remove them with stilsons or something.

The above knowledge you would get from me if you walked into the bike shop I work in, and if there wasn't a queue, you could probably get your BB removed while you wait. Also available there is the knowledge to remove said BB if the cups are ruined...


That uses the same tool I use for my Campag Veloce BBs.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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